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Circumcision in the US has dropped dramatically, and it keeps lowering with each passing year.

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Originally Posted by Livia (Post 4264492)

Yes Jews eat Kosher meat, in much the same way that Muslims eat Halal meat. It doesn’t show a lack of understanding of the modern world at all. I think you show a lack of understanding if you think that the way animals are slaughtered in abattoirs is any better. And you can be a Jew and a veggie or a vegan.

I still think it's out of step with the modern world.

And nope I'm not saying the way non kosher meat is done is better, I'm saying that I think the way Jewish people don't have a choice in what they put into their bodies seems primitive.

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Circumcision isn’t just a religious thing. For instance the majority of men in the USA are circumcised for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. It’s not outlawed because it’s a recognised medical procedure, unlike the "modern" passion for punching holes through clitorises and penises and other parts of the body.

Well I was talking about the way it's done to minors and they have no say in it, this seems really wrong to me.

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Tell Rabbi Julia Neuberger that you can’t be a religious leader http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_N...ness_Neuberger … then see if you can find an equivalent position to hers in… say… Catholicism. And I might mention that Israel had a female prime minister years before the UK did. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golda_Meir

Thank you for the links, I didn't know women could become rabbi. But like all major religions I think this one is very sexist too.

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I think you’ll find an equal amount of wars have been caused by greed, vanity and avarice. Religious people do not have the monopoly on hating each other and causing wars. Sometimes people with no religion show a monumental lack of understanding by feeling they have a right to criticise freely people who do follow a religion without knowing the first thing about what it means.

I still believe there would be less suffering in the world without religion.

A two state solution will probably work. To be honest, what they need is a REAL peace process. A process which stops violence, stops bombs and stops it all. Then we can get into politics. A bit like my own country.

Let's hire the Chinese to build a giant wall around the entire middle east and just ignore them. The Chinese are good at building walls.

Really excellent posts by Grimnir and Livia. To those who say the Palestinians and Israelis can never live together peacefully, Northern Ireland, though definitely at least a generation away from complete resolution, has come a long, long way. It is possible.

Gypsy Goth - if there was no religion, you can be guaranteed people would find another reason to start wars. I've always been fascinated by Jews and read a lot by and about them. Philip Roth is an exceptional writer and an anti-Zionist, but one who argues from an informed, intelligent standpoint. Arthur Miller also opens a window remarkably. An argument put forward by Howard Jacobson in the wonderful Finkler Question is that Jews are over-burdened by their 'Jewishness' and set expectations too high because many Jews define themselves first and foremost as Jews. I can't put it nearly as well as he can but, before anyone jumps on the Palestinian bandwagon, I think they should attempt to attain a better understanding of Jewish history and the waves and waves and waves of jealousy, distrust and hatred this proud, brilliant race has been subject to for centuries.

Finally, I would like to say that I utterly oppose the Israelis' stance on the occupied territories and agree that the blind support of the US does Israel no good at all in international PR stakes. A huge proportion of Jews worldwide oppose Zionism, by the way.