Jesus, this is draconian, 4 years in jail for a facebook post about riots that never even happened!?

I'm sure the prosecutors had several precidents they could call on for a long sentence. Incitement has always carried a longer sentence than the act itself.

MTVN... 4-0! Wahhhhhhhhhhh!

Funny how you can run someone over and kill them, then escape with a one year sentence, yet for creating one Facebook page you can get four years

It's all about intent. No one who organises a riot on facebook can say they got caught up in the moment. Their intended involvement is premeditated and they're inciting others to take part.

Can you please stop with the ignorant crap about creating a Facebook page. Thats not what they got jailed for.

If Osama bin Laden created a Facebook page inciting mass suicide bombings would you say his crime was just creating a Facebook page? No!

If those two braindead chavrats had their way their town would have been smashed to a pulp. And it was no joke either. Ringleaders deserve tougher sentences to deter other ringleaders because thats where it starts.

Understand?

Yes, I understand and agree with your post 100%

They are accomplices,IMO they should be getting about 12 years.

Murderers dont even get that long half the time :laugh:

Most people know my opinion on killers,I would bring the death penalty in on them scumbags.

Fair enough :)

I think that is what he's been jailed for though. No matter how you word it - "inciting disorder", "encouraging violence" etc. etc. - you can't deny the fact that he has done nothing more than make a post on a website. I mean, lets not give this guy too much credit, do we really think he's that inspirational a figure that by inviting people to a facebook event he's going to get all these people out on the streets rioting that would otherwise have sat at home?

No it certainly is not! Facebook was just the choice of communications medium. It was the incitement and intent that nailed them.

It astonishes me that people can trivialise their actions when we all know damn well that the flash mobs that destroyed businesses, homes, areas and thousnads of lives were actually brought out in force via social network sites. And there in lies the very point of hitting them hard. Such instant mass messaging can bring a mob together much quicker than the police can gather. Its absolutely crucial to come down heavy on this behaviour and ensure nobody tries to trigger such anarchy ever again. If you cant see that then I give up.

And save your sympathy for the more deserving; like the ones who lost their lives last week. Or the hundreds who lost homes and businesses. Not two useless nasty minded scumbags who were intent on burning a town to the ground.

The more I think about the more Im convinced that 2 years in prison was actually very lenient. And I have no time whatsoever for liberal namby pamby do-gooders who laughably seem to think that being soft on all those mindless thugs who took over our streets last week will prevent them doing it again. Like fcking hell! But hard hitting punishment may certainly make them think twice. And thats really all that matters.

You're completely sensationalising, it's not even like these guys instigated any rioting, nothing even happened in the town as a result of this! So what exactly are they guilty of, failing to start a riot? And that gets a more severe sentence then all of those who actually did riot. It honestly scares me that 2 people can be locked behind bars for 4 years because they did something stupid on a social networking site which didn't even lead to anything. There is just no way that this is a fair and proportionate sentence, no way.

Your second and third paragraphs show the problem here, people are being guided completely by their anger at what has happened as a result of the riots. And then you seem to think there's some moral equivalency between burning a home, or a business, even killing someone, and then making a riot event on Facebook. It's ridiculous. You tell me to save my sympathy for those more deserving, well why don't you save your anger for those more deserving; those who are actually responsible for a man's death, or for a home-owners loss.

The response to this by the courts has just been absurd. A guy who stole a bottle of water got 6 months, a guy who stole 2 t-shirts was released. The punishments that are being dished out are just all over the place and don't seem to reflect appropriate sentencing. And give it a rest with the "liberal namby pamdy" rubbish.

I think these guys got what they deserved. I'm glad they got such sentences.

Next time there is a riot, others will think twice about taking advantage of the chaos.

Well...not really. Given that half the people who actually DID riot are getting away with nothing, or week long sentences...

MTVN

funny how you always seem to instinctively side with the criminal I've noticed.

And you can downplay what they did all you like but their attempts at bringing destruction to their town are clear to see. Clearly the court of law agrees. As do the vast majority of the general public from what Ive read and heard.

The fact that it didnt actually happen was not from lack of them trying. It was because thankfully there were not enough sick twats like them in their town. And the fact they didnt get to actually riot was probably very upsetting for them. Its pretty obvious that theyre exactly the type that would have been out there causing maximum destruction...just for the hell of it. But they were too cowardly to do it by themselves and wanted a mob with them.

But yeah, keep kidding yourself that the fact they didnt get their wishes somehow makes them innocent. Personally Im very happy theyre getting punished for a huge FAIL. A fail that spared hundreds of people great pain and devastation.

As oppose to who in this case? Who is the victim of this guys "crime" exactly? There isn't one. I don't always side with the criminal at all but I try to avoid the relentless bloodlust and condemnation that is often displayed, there is always a context to crime

Its a example
to worn the future Criminals
that Police can track you.

We don't know the full extent of the crime. Maybe the riot they were trying to whip up didn't take place only because the police were aware and nipped it in the bud. That doesn't make these two people innocent. They're lucky that a riot didn't actually take place or their sentences could have been a lot longer.

All we really know about these two people is that they were convicted of incitement. We don't know what was said, we don't know whether the Facebook thing was the only charge, we don't know any of the mitigating circumstances nor do we know whether these two had any previous. Incitement has always carried a higher sentence than the actual deed.

There are hardly any controls on the Internet and people have felt free and safe to say pretty much they want... only now, people will have have a bit of a think whether it's worth four years of their life or not.

From what I've read the guy created a facebook event to riot in Northwich and then the only ones who actually turned up were the police. Let's not lose any sense of perspective here, these riots in Northwich did not exist outside of the world of Facebook, I fail to see how failing to start a riot deserves a 4 year jail sentence.

This is what the Chinese state media website Global times had to say: "The US and Britain used to criticise developing countries for curbing freedom of speech...Britain's new attitude will help appease the quarrels between East and West over the future management of the internet". I consider it a pretty bad sign when we have the backing of a notorious human rights abuser who's oppressive actions we regularly condemn

The same sentence that these two guys were given was also given to Tesfaye Bramble (Titus' Bramble's brother) who raped a 19 year old. The same for Rajinder Dutt who got 4 years for supplying £1.3million worth of heroin. Is creating a facebook page - or to use the official terminology "inciting disorder" - really on the same level as rape and drug dealing. People have killed and gotten less!

If you ask me this sentence represents a complete violation of free speech and it sets a very dangerous precedent if it is now possible to serve years in a prison cell because of an ill judged post on a social networking site.

From what I've read the guy created a facebook event to riot in Northwich and then the only ones who actually turned up were the police. Let's not lose any sense of perspective here, these riots in Northwich did not exist outside of the world of Facebook, I fail to see how failing to start a riot deserves a 4 year jail sentence.

This is what the Chinese state media website Global times had to say: "The US and Britain used to criticise developing countries for curbing freedom of speech...Britain's new attitude will help appease the quarrels between East and West over the future management of the internet". I consider it a pretty bad sign when we have the backing of a notorious human rights abuser who's oppressive actions we regularly condemn

The same sentence that these two guys were given was also given to Tesfaye Bramble (Titus' Bramble's brother) who raped a 19 year old. The same for Rajinder Dutt who got 4 years for supplying £1.3million worth of heroin. Is creating a facebook page - or to use the official terminology "inciting disorder" - really on the same level as rape and drug dealing. People have killed and gotten less!

If you ask me this sentence represents a complete violation of free speech and it sets a very dangerous precedent if it is now possible to serve years in a prison cell because of an ill judged post on a social networking site.

So do you guys agree with this then?


?

Freedom of speech is something quite different to incement to riot. You're making it sound like these poor lads have been set up! And we don't know it was one ill-judged post on a social networking site. I'd be very - very - surprised if that's all there was to it. If that was true, the defence would have been all over the prosecution.

But hey - I'm not arguing with you any more today. I'm too chuffed for you at your A level results so I'm shutting my pie hole.

:-)

Fair enough, I'm happy to agree to disagree :spin:

For all we know the Toronto Star made up the entire thing. Trivialising what went on during the riots makes it easier for people to do it again.