At the moment I AM confined to a bed in agony (I have a cold), not quite every second but I'm getting there.
I actually DO know what people contemplating this are going through, I am one, therefore I see these very people and speak with them or do you think cancer treatment starts and stops at wearing slippers?

For what its worth about 70% would prefer the system we have now, for the very reasons I've said, fear of miss use or mistakes by "bent" Doctors or incompetant social services.
There are some who disagree of course, and I'll say they are more often than not people who have had little or no support to live as long and as happy as possible.

Many times I've felt like wanting to die, the latest being when I read you horrid reply (that was real nasty btw) but I've always been surrounded by good care and proper encouragement to live.
So I will continue to dare you on a subject far more closer to me than I'd ever wish on you.
No matter how nasty you are.

Yeah, it should.

Why just ignore every point we make about dignity and choice... and then just re hash your old point?

"sound minded Doctor (up until his arrest did we know differently) "
whether we knew differently or not makes zero difference to your argument...he was a nutter. He is NOT a god example of doc qualified to decide on assisted suicide because they need more than one doc ( as I said) ....plus don't they also need a psychologist to makes sure the ill person isn't being forced, is of sound mind.
This has ZERO to do with Shipman example and I want you to say as much. "bungling bureaucratic organisation" what? go to the US and see what a cr#p health service is ... you just hang sh*t on everything. Governments, doctors, social workers. ... and then hope somewhere in all that mud slinging you've made an argument.

"Preventing one mistake and 1 one miss use to me equates to 2 innocent people staying alive." Here's what's wrong..."
YOU don't get to choose how people who want to end there lives go out. GET IT? Why would you think you can? The "mistakes" you talk of?... what mistakes " person wants to end there lives... doc looks them over 3 times over a month, gets and psychologist to check the person. Then a physicain checks them out. What mistake and misuse are you talking about given the amount oh huge regulation and double and triple checking there will be..spell it out . A shipman type doc has more chance of getting away with what he did today in anormal GP practice than he would today under these stringent euthanasia laws. That's 3 times I've said that ...

there you go again... I'm "horrid" "I'm nasty" YOU want people to die in agony... in pain with no dignaty. There last gasp being horrible and bitter instead of going out with dignaty in the arms of those who love and cherrish them. You want to make the choices for dying people....but I'm "horrid". My point is you KEEP using your cancer in arguments eg "Many times I've felt like wanting to die, the latest being when I read you horrid reply". So you'd prefer I treated you differently since you have cancer? I've had 2 people close to me die of terminal illnesses and neither wanted special treatment....they HATED sympathy but you keep playing that card.... if someone like YOU told them THEY ought to go out of these world all helpless and in horrible pain instead of with grace and dignaty then how can you call me horrid? For the record I'm sure you'll be pleased to know they spent their last weeks in hospice care and in pain.
Hope you weren't expecting an apology.

Ok so you use Shipman, he is an example of 1 person who abused his position but look at the thousands of doctors out there every day working hard on our behalf to get it right. I think to trawl out Shipman for this argument belittles the positions of so many good people working in the health care and social care sectors.

Like I previously said I am aware of your own personal struggles but that doesnt give you the only valid opinion on the matter. I am strongly in favour of personal choice with this, I dont think anyone should be denied the right to choose. You have stated your position Angie and I respect that, you if given the choice would choose to stay alive, but someone else in your position could well choose to end their suffering.

As for the dig at Ange about her making you want to die, well that was a pretty low blow, that was uncalled for and was purely for a reaction :bored: I appreciate that you did not like what was said to you, but I think that was very low.

wow my head is spinning.. ... plus it's 3.20 am here in Sydney so I'm off to bed.

Sorry if this got heated... I was as much out of line as angie. Angie you get under my skin not because I hate you but because I like you and your posts ...but I get taken aback by stuff you say now and then.
ps Sunny...I'm not a she... I'm 100% aussie beefcake! ... :tongue:
night all and sorry again

Assisted suicide for the hms in the Big Brother house? :hello::bouncy:

A bit heavy, dont you think? I appreciate what your going through but your either on a vendetta to make somebody look in a worse light or you really take this place to seriously. One post your talking about your will to live and the next your talking about wanting to die because of a post you read on an internet forum?

The country was Holland

And if you want you can look at this study which documents statistics on Non-Voluntary Euthanasia

Not quite the hand-waving you thought I was doing

You were indeed out of line but after some provoking so lets put it behind us all.

Beefcake you say??? Sorry for the girly assumption lol.

Nobody is denied a right to choose, if they were I'd feel entirely different about this, thats my point.

That is also A long long way off making suicide legal.
People can ..will and do whatever they feel is right for them, and AGAIN for the record I would support and respect there course of action.
That too though is a long long way short of supporting a legalised suicide.

I have NEVER EVER saught sympathy on this forum for my condition, NEVER!!!! I completely resent that when in fact Ive done everything possible to treat this place as a normal poster as possible, you have no idea to what extent that manifests itself so don't talk to me about low blows and pretend to "appreciate" what I may or may not like.
I don't need patronising thank you very much.

As for the comment to ange it seems you and her have missed the point yet again, many times Ive wished I was dead , as I'm sure we have all said at some time.
Thats no low blow its a figure of speach which was meant to highlight exactly how easy someone can wish to die, given the "ideal" criteria ange stipulated in an earlier post, that wish together with my non improving terminal condition means all I need is to find a doc whom Ive never met before and hey .........I'm dead.

Now how low a blow would that be?

Im not missing any points again, I really wish you were not so patronising. How are my to tell in a thread of this nature, coupled with some other posts you have made, when you are being serious or when you are just trying to highlight some subtext through macabre posts?

Agreed- we have the third best health service in the world- hardly incompetant!

You appear to have gone off on another tangent again. You seem to change your mind like the weather.

Patronise you, believe me if I wanted to patronise you I would, I was trying to be respectful which appears to be something you dont understand so I wont bother anymore.

Your saying now that you were not reaching for the sympathy vote when you said Ange7's comment made you want to die was no figure of speech it was a deliberate attempt IMO to mainpulate the situation, but hey what do I know.

Edited to change wording

No I don't think so at all, again I expected a little thought from you, take a look at you posts in the "hate" thread.

Ive wished I was dead during child birth even during a heavy nights drinking in the past, and in a far lesser way after reading a post.
I dare say tomorrow I'll wake up in a better mood and wish to jump over the moon, but I wont be announcing that here I woulnt want you or any body else wasting your money on buying a damn telescope just to see if I made it.

Now has the penny dropped.

Again, I find it annoying how patronising your attempting to be. Each post to me your mentioning somehting about how you thought a little more of me. You can stop that, okay? Its pretty damn annoying. Having different views to you is not an opening for you to take digs at my character. Not appriciated.

And for what its worth, I have absoloutely no idea where your going with this. I saw your comment about wanting to die because of a post you read, and so I made a reply as I found it in poor taste [who wants to hear that, let alone have the burden of thinking it when their posting on an internet forum?], but apparently my reply was lacking in thought, as if all of us on TiBB have standbye emergency thought packages, giving us the knowledge of knowing EXACTLY what to say to someone who makes a comment open to such dangerous interpretation.

Ive thought about this some more and I find it really sad that people have to go abroad on their own to die and their loved ones cant be with them. So if we're going to respect peoples choice to die (which Angiebabe you said you do), then surely we have to make it legal.

I agree with you, having to leave your own home, family and all the things familiar to you to die must be awful, but it kind of makes you realise how determined people are to actually die if they will go to those lengths.

So no comment on the study I provided a link to?

sorry sticks havent had a chance to read it properly I'll give it a go at some point...it seems to be largely based on theory and conjecture at first glance but Ive not read it properly

"In 1993, authors from the department of Public Health at the Erasmus University could write: 'But is it not true that once one accepts euthanasia and assisted suicide, the principle of universalizability forces one to accept termination of life without explicit request, at least sometimes, as well? In our view, the answer to this question must be in the affirmative' (12)."

This seems to be an important quote to me and the theme running through the article. Their view is this but Ive yet to see hard evidence that a natural progression from voluntary euthanasia would be more cases of non-voluntary euthanasia because it would seem more of an ethically viable option. Its pure conjecture from what I see so far

I just read the link Sticks, very interesting reading in paticular the statistics from Australia and the conclusions brought about from the report itself.

It does confirm my own and the majority of people I've spoken with concerns over assisted suicide.

Although I don't like the idea of making assisted suicide legal, that DOES NOT mean I automatically must wish pain and suffering to people with terminal illnesss. Like wise I DO NOT take the view that ALL THOSE who disagree are wanton killers with alterior motives.
I've met and spoken to people who would wish to be assisted and relatives who would assist a person in taking there own life.
For them it is the right and proper thing to do, and who am I or anyone else to judge or punish them as "murderers"
However the right thing to do for them is still along way short of making this a concrete LAW for everyone else.
What we have in the UK now is a fine balance enough (IMO), where as I'm sure assisted suicide does and will happen and continue, all without the need to involve police investigations or charges being brought forward.
In other words I'd rather have this issue decided by the morals of individuals directly involved rather than a state run law judged by people who will never really know what the facts may or may not have been.

Neither is perfect, trusting peoples morals is no gurantee things will be right, neither (IMO) is any proposed regulated formula I've yet seen.
I've said many times I've wished I was dead, and really meant it on occasions, in reality though I've NEVER actually wished I was dead, or I would be.
That's why in my situation I'd like the legal stance left unchanged, I feel that benefits far more people than it hurts.

Does it benefit the people who have to die alone in a foreign country without their loved ones around? Does it benefit the loved ones who cant be with them when they die? If your saying that you agree with people doing it for their own personal reasons, and if we all agree that as a society then why not make it legal so people dont have to die alone...

Also the statistics in that article just add to conjecture they dont appear to be meaningful on their own. I would like to see more comparative studies.

There is no perfect solution to this issue thats for sure, so my answer to your first 2 questions is a straight and UNCHANGED throughout this thread NO, it won't benefit those cases.

IF however we can ever ALL agree as a socierty or even just gain a majority then yes, it would make sense to make assisted suicide lawful, but take a look at this thread alone, and together with other forum debates you will clearly see that is one mighty big IF.

And I stress again that from the 16 or so regular patients I have seen and to whom this issue applies to them most of all, the majority do have reservations on a change in law.