Thanks for that bananarama, I am studying politics and I found that personal insight really interesting from you.

In books we get the authors interpetration of events and depending on the authors you can get very conflicting views as to the workings of Parties when in govt.
Books are fine for Election data etc;

I talk to as many people as I can who have greater experience of life as to politics, elections and events,because,like yourself, they lived through it, they felt the real negative imapacts or positive benefits as to what Govts. did in power.

Thank you very much for taking the time to enlighten me,I greatly appreciate that.

New Labour Walked away from the LibDem Deal


So that is Fact.




I back Winners.

5 Year term



Feel The Force.

There was no viable deal to be had with the Lib Dems and Labour because of the risky mathematics,but it was the Lib DEms that walked from any deal there.
Labour and the Lib Dems could only total 315 seats together,that meant they would be at the mercy of the SNP,Plaid Cymru,the Conservatives and the DUP who would have totalled around 325 between them.

With likely by-elections any coalition between the Lib Dems and Labour may not have lasted with any long stability.

However,in fact this is what the Lib Dems walked away from with Labour, Labour offered AV in place for the next election, plus a review into a likely referendum on PR too, the cutting of the deficit plan over 4 years but no cuts in the first year,no plans to increase VAT and no increases in Tuition fees.
That was what was offered to the Lib Dems from Labour,the Lib Dems walked away from that, preferring not to trust the SNP.Plaid Cymru or the DUP to avoid bringing down a Labour/Lib Dem coalition,despite Alex Salmond suggesting that very thing, a Labour-Lib Dem coalition committed to moving to PR, avoiding cuts in the first year and having an agreement with him and other parties not to vote against that anti-Tory coalition

The Lib Dems walked away from Labour because the Lib Dems demanded much more from Labour than they dared demand from the Tories.

Yes but New Labour Gave up fast
and Pathetic Double UnElected Brown
walked out.

And before the Election day His Foolish Comments about Gillian Duffy
were on a SkyNews mic.


Utter Bliss

The Lib Dems under Clegg had no intention of working with Gordon Brown anyway. Clegg said that from halfway through the election.

I had no time for Brown but he was not unelected as we the voters do not elect Prime Ministers, we elect parties to Govt,technically any member for that party elected to Westminster can be PM.

MowHEre on my ballot paper was Gordon Browns name, David Camerons or Nick Cleggs, I voted for a party candidate not whether I wanted him/her to be PM.

Brown was selected by his party to be their leader when Blair went,but as for changing leaders while in Govt, the Conservatives from all I have read were past masters of it.

Winston Churchill elected in 1951, stepped down for Eden to fight the 1955 election, Eden was gone and Harold McMillan made leader of the Conservatives to fight the 1959 election,McMillan stood down in 1963, and Alec Douglas-Home took over as PM until the 1964 election. Then of course in the 90s the Tories stabbed 3 times election winner Thatcher in the back in 1990,got rid of her and replaced her with John Major who then fought the 1992 election.

AS I said we the voters elect parties to govt,we have a party system in the UK, we dont all directly vote for a Prime Minister.
Had for instance Labour or the Conservatives won an overall majority but Gordon Brown or David Cameron lost their seat, then the Labour or Conservative 'party' would have had to put a new PM in place with no referral back to the voters at all.

"I had no time for Brown but he was not unelected as we the voters do not elect Prime Ministers, we elect parties to Govt,technically any member for that party elected to Westminster can be PM."


He was Never Elected by the Public.

John Major , for example
who took over from Thatcher
called a Election and the Public Elected him


So Poxy Brown was 100% UnElected in that sense

How was he then as you said in this quote doubly unelected if as is rightly the case he only fought one election as leader of Labour, whereas you rightly point out John major did fight elections and won one of them.
Losing the other he fought in 1997.
It was the double unelected part of your post I responded to.

arista, I couldn't stand Gordon Brown, he was never up to the job of PM and was a walking disaster near all the time.
I think we agree on that one very much.

"arista, I couldn't stand Gordon Brown, he was never up to the job of PM and was a walking disaster near all the time.
I think we agree on that one very much. "


Yes
I just love calling him Double UnElected
as he could have called a Election
well before last year, but was scared.
He made sure millions was spent on every home getting a leaflet though.


I hate Brown.

The only explanation I can think of is that the Lib Dems were resigned to failing miserably in both the local elections and the referendum. Not that campaigning, fundraising and public relations are their strong points anyway. They have known the spoils of their policy sacrifices (the possibility of a PR referendum to eventually shoehorn themselves into the league of a leading party) were long lost for many months now. The rest is theatre and grandstanding just as I suspect their new 'muscular' stance is. Thank God none of us are stupid enough to fall for it anymore.

You have a strange perception of history. A lib/lab deal was just not viable.....The libs went for the party they thought could give them the most power and a possibility of in government longevity......

All this fuss and bother about being unelected as if under first past the post any party is "genuinly" elected.......Elected to me means majority in favour........

Under first past the post neither Labour or Tory are ever genuinally elected as in getting a majority of voters supporting them.

Look at the figures with our corrupted democracy. If either Tory or labour won a land slide of seats with 48% of the vote........Still 52% of the country doesn't want either of the incompetent bastards....

All this baring malice because an MP was not elected is just pie in the sky irrelevance.....

"the country doesn't want either"


Those Feckers should have Voted more
We should have a Law that everyone Votes
and a box for none of them