[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13303885

The Liberal Democrats have suffered heavy losses in councils in the north of England, as Labour make gains in the English local elections.

The Lib Dems have lost control of Hull to Labour, 11 seats in Liverpool and have been overtaken by Labour as the largest party in Sheffield.

Serves 'em right for sleeping with the enemy .....

[joeysteele]

It's good news and if they don't think hard on this,they will pay a bigger price in 4 years at the next General election.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It's good news and if they don't think hard on this,they will pay a bigger price in 4 years at the next General election.

You can not say what will happen in 4 years time
you can only guess.


By then Bin Ladens Next in Line could have changed the World.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

You can not say what will happen in 4 years time
you can only guess.


By then Bin Ladens Next in Line could have changed the World.

Well obviously I can only guess, but history indicates the longer people are kept waiting for some kind of revenge in politics the worse it is.
The Tory party held on to power right to the last minute from 1992 to 1997,when Major eventually had to go to the Nation he was near annihalated by the voters backlash.

Gordon Brown refuse the voters an election in 2007 and kept them waiting until the last minute again in 2010 and he got hammered as well.

However ,apart from all that I didn't say what would happen in 4 years time, I said if you read my post correctly that 'if' the Lib Dems don't think on these results then they will pay a bigger price then. just as Brown and Major did in the examples I give above.

We are entitlled from our thoughts and experiences to say what we think and expect could happen in the future. No law against that to my knowledge.

[arista]

But this gives LibDens
4 years to turn it around.


They can still do well
and act as the puppet master,
if at the General Election
Conservative or Labour
do not have enough.


Labour are not good under Ed.
so it could be another Hung Parl.




Clegg this morning

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

But this gives LibDens
4 years to turn it around.


They can still do well
and act as the puppet master,
if at the General Election
Conservative or Labour
do not have enough.


Labour are not good under Ed.
so it could be another Hung Parl.

I dare bet,in fact I already have placed a bet that it will be a hung parliament in 2015, because from my reading of politics it is clear after the 2010 election that the UK is not now a right wing Country as to the majority of its voters.
64% of voters in an election the Conservatives should have walked into power in with an overall majority of at least 30 seats voted against the Conservatives and right wing policies.

In 2010 the Conservatives could only get 36% of the votes, leaving them a clear 7 points ahead of Labour, even with the new boundary changes planned for 2015 the Conservatives will need to be, if the AV vote is lost, at least that again ahead of Labour just to get a bare overall majority,under AV they would have no chance at all of an overall majority unless over 10 points ahead.

I believe firmly the Lib Dems have lost for good the Labour voters who switched to them from 2002,I rate that figure to be at least 5% of their vote,so even with a Lib Dem revival the next election should still see Labour with at least 35% of the votes minimum, the Lib Dems likely 15%,others 11% so that only leaves the Conservatives with a maximum 38/39% left. another hung parliament.

Rarely in politics are bad poll ratings turned around in less than 4 years, 4 years from now we will be almost at the end of the next General election campaign, even with any good successes for this Govt, I cannot see the Lib Dems getting any credit for that. The Conservative party machine will say they, the Conservatives, were able to achieve any success despite the Lib Dems not because of them.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/el...ml/england.stm

Liberal Democrats

Councils___+/-

8_________-8

Councillors_+/-

841_______-579

[Shaun]

the big loss really seems to be the independents / other parties... am shocked that the Conservatives have gained overall, really.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Omah

Councils

Councillors
Party

Total +/-

Total +/-
Conservative

125 +4

3826 +55
Labour

54 +24

2081 +692
Liberal Democrat

8 -8

841 -579

The Conservatives have done good, they remain where they were in 2007 (from the figures of 2003) and at the election last year.

Labour has done in fairness considerably better,in 2007 they lost 500+ councillors, they have gained so far nearly 700, that means they are in a better position than in 2003,they went on to win an election in 2005 with figures worse than these.

It's an absolute disaster for the Lib Dems and takes them back decades.They still cannot get the voters who trusted them are so angry with them for their turanround completely on major policies and promises.

Even the massive council of Birmingham nearly went to full Labour control, they were only 6 seats away from taking it outright.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Shaun

the big loss really seems to be the independents / other parties... am shocked that the Conservatives have gained overall, really.

I'm not, after all 36% of voters supported the Conservatives at the last election, they have clearly stayed with them and at least the Conservatives are doing what they said they would.

The Lib Dems on the other hand are doing mostly the total opposite of what their policies were and what they promised at the election so that's why they are really being punished more. Amazingly, they just don't get that.

[MTVN]

I feel sorry for them really, they were in such a difficult situation after the election and Clegg's been the one holding the Coalition together but then gets turned on by the Tory-endorsed No campaign. The Lib Dems are generally very good on a local level as well, it's a shame that voters have punished them so badly

[arista]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I feel sorry for them really, they were in such a difficult situation after the election and Clegg's been the one holding the Coalition together but then gets turned on by the Tory-endorsed No campaign. The Lib Dems are generally very good on a local level as well, it's a shame that voters have punished them so badly

Conservatives are OK

[arista]

Originally Posted by Shaun

the big loss really seems to be the independents / other parties... am shocked that the Conservatives have gained overall, really.

I am Not Shocked.

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by Omah

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13303885



Serves 'em right for sleeping with the enemy .....

Indeed. The Libs are getting what they deserve when you sup with the devil and reap the consequences....

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by Shaun

the big loss really seems to be the independents / other parties... am shocked that the Conservatives have gained overall, really.

If you think about it not really surprising the Conservatives have come out well (This time). The cuts are still at mainly planning stages....The true horror is yet to be felt. Also council tax frozen will please the dumb ones amongst us not realising that at some point more jobs will be lost as a result.

At some point the breaks on council tax will have to come off and then it will be like releasing a spring and councils will have to recoup what they have lost or make even more cuts and redundancies....Same old Tory loony right politics that will never work for the better of the country....

[Vicky.]

And all because of Camerons butt-plug

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And all because of Camerons butt-plug

LOL

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And all because of Camerons butt-plug

Is that Clegg ?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Omah

Is that Clegg ?

I cannot see they mean anyone else Omah.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Omah

Is that Clegg ?

Can you think of anyone else who fits that description so perfectly?

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Can you think of anyone else who fits that description so perfectly?

Nope .....

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Can you think of anyone else who fits that description so perfectly?

I think Osborne is close



Such a good couple

[arista]

Originally Posted by bananarama

Indeed. The Libs are getting what they deserve when you sup with the devil and reap the consequences....

Yes attacking LibDems
very Labour of you.


Meanwhile David gets on with his job.

[joeysteele]

I feel a lot of people and particularly the Lib Dems are missing the real point of this.

The Lib Dems are not being punished and criticised for going into coalition with the Conservatives.
They are being punished for getting votes under false pretences.
Fron Clegg down to the party workers that came on TV or to your door,they promised unreservedly, that 1) they would not support cuts being made in the first year while the recovery was still fragile, 2) they would not support a VAT increase, 3) they would never support an increase in tuition fees,their policy was to abolish them anyway.

All the polls in the whole election campaign pointed to no party winning an overall majority, never once in that knowledge did the Lib Dems or Clegg say they may have to break their promises if they had to joiin a coalition.

That is why Clegg is now so toxic to the voters in Politics, they promised one thing on major matters to get the votes,once they got them they abused the trust put in them and abused the power with the seats those votes gave them.
They didn't compromise, they gave the Conservatives the mandate the voters refused to give them and therefore committed a breach of trust with their voters.

It is those who Voted Lib Dem who left in droves in May.
That is the reality of the situation and Clegg is the Gordon Brown of politics now he will not be trusted, he will not be believed and the longer he makes the Voters wait to judge him and the Lib Dem hierarchy the worse it will likely be.

It is not just Labour voters attacking Clegg and his sheep like MPs,it is also those who voted SNP,Plaid Cymru,Green and even some Conservative sympathisers who did not want savage cutting made in the first year and increases in tuition fees.

Clegg will have to go if the Lib Dems want to recover any integrity or crediblity,when Clegg speaks now the vast majority of voters hear him but don't listen to him, he is seen as a liar and a deceiver to them and they won't trust him again.

He knows that too but he has got himself some status and a nice increase in salary for him and some of his MPs, he will not give that up for anything that may be the decent now.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I feel sorry for them really, they were in such a difficult situation after the election and Clegg's been the one holding the Coalition together but then gets turned on by the Tory-endorsed No campaign. The Lib Dems are generally very good on a local level as well, it's a shame that voters have punished them so badly

I try not to be too judgemental about the fact Clegg entered a Coalition with the Tories, because the LD's focused so heavily on attacking Brown's incumbent government in their election campaign, they would have been labelled hypocrites for choosing Labour instead. However, I am afraid this is a disaster of their own making otherwise. Whatver backroom deals they felt they had to make, nobody forced them to regurgitate virtually every piece of Tory spin, make a u-turn on Tuition Fees, support their slash and burn cuts agenda and VAT rise (remember they supposed to be Keynesians and Vince Cable in fact started out as an SDP member... how does somebody change their mind on this overnight?), and support the underhand privatisation of the NHS.

The Conservatives did NOT have a mandate to lead this country and were in no position to be calling the shots and so I can only surmise that the Libs did this for a little bit of short term stature and a few more seats in cabinet. This is the cancer of the modern politician. Long-term influence and public trust are completely secondary to immediate political gains.