I'm not spreading the propaganda. Believe me, I know all about the flaws and war mongering of some of his philosophies.

He was also a fraudster that you pretty much have to believe in, in order to get anywhere in your political system. Sorry, but your congress with 7-10% approval rating is appalling.

I'm not saying we're better, because we're not. All ideas are man made.

If Jesus did come back, do you honestly think anyone would believe him? They'd probably call him the devil and crucify him again.

We've had plenty of people claim to be Jesus returning.

Judaism accepts converts, but do not recruit. My husband wasn't Jewish, he did not convert and so we couldn't marry in the synagogue, but he was still accepted by every Jewish person I know. My parents gave me every opportunity to opt out. I guess all decent parents would. Orthodox Jews are another matter entirely, like you said... but don't you find that all religious people who tend to suffer from their faith, end up being a little... wacky?

I agree that most religious people would be just as happy being christian, or muslim or jewish, they just enjoy sharing traditions with their loved ones. Like I said before, most religious people really arn't very religious. Most religious people are not intellectually or spiritually invested in their own religion. Most have never read their own religious texts, or put much thought into the darker sides of their religion.

When i talk about "religious people" i'm really talking about that 10% of each religion that are the fanatics, and actually believe in the dogma.

Thats not what I said though. I am not a Christian or a Muslim. I am a Jew. I'm not sure most Jews would be happy being Muslim or Christian. And I'm pretty sure no Muslim is going to be happy being a Christian or even less likely, a Jew. I'm happy for people to follow whichever faith they choose, but that doesn't mean I would give up my own faith for theirs. I don't think you can grade people's religiousness, and I'm certain you can't grade mine. That's like saying, most gay people aren't really that gay. It's a little... insulting.

really? so you think if you were born into a christian family, you wouldn't be just as happy being christian? because your "soul" would still be "jewish". sorry but i disagree. you only identify as jewish and cherish being jewish because you were raised that way, i don't think there is anything INHERENTLY jewish about you.

Comparing homosexuality is just silly, because being gay isn't a choice. being Jewish IS a choice. You didn't choose to be born into a jewish family, but you do choose to identify as jewish. religion is not the same as sexuality. Judaism is an ideology and a culture. being attracted to the same sex is not an ideology or a culture.

I'm sure you've met plenty of gay jews.

The 'gay' comment was a wildly sweeping and untrue statement, just as I felt your summing up of the majority of religious people being "not very religious" was.

I don't feel the need to justify what I am and who I am, or grade how strongly I feel and why. I know, and that's enough.

okay, i feel you're shutting down the conversation by just saying "you don't understand, how dare you judge religions!".

you arn't using rational debate, you're just shutting down and claiming victimhood. This is how it ALWAYS goes when you try to have a conversation about religion with religious people. And it's really not fair.

Why do you think it's okay to just shut off debates like this?

I'm shutting down because I feel like I've said all I have to say on this thread. Your opinion is your own and I'm not going to change it. I don't want to change it. And I certainly don't feel like a victim here. I just don't feel the need to try to make you understand how I feel. And as I like you, I don't want it to deteriorate into an argument.

Why would it deteriorate into an argument? I think both of us have been speaking in a calm and measured tone. Did you feel like i was being aggressive towards you?

Why don't you want me to understand how you feel? Isn't that what every human being wants? I want to understand. you say in one breath that religious people are not all extremists, but then when i agreed and said most epople arn't extremists because they arn't that religious, you got offended.

No, I didn't think you were being at all aggressive. I just don't think there's any more to say. We can agree to differ.

What are we differing about though? You don't think you could be just as comfortable being christian or muslim, that's what you said, and i found that statement fascinating.