Definitely this

Would refusing to authorise the torture, thus ending in millions of lives being lost not equate to the same thing though, since in the scenario of the OP the needed information is guaranteed?

Where is this evidence? This isn't cliche-laden it's just pure supposition.
I find it hard to believe that anyone would make a list of who they tortured, when and why....
How does torture work?

has anyone here seen the recent movie prisoners which is a really good film. his daughter gets taken and he tortures the guy responsible to find out where she is. its a good dilemma to save your own kid what would you do.

the nuke things is a obvious yes torture the sucker. but it works on many other things as well.
those who say no would say yes in the right circumstance and in reality.

we are never going to agree, we as a whole let people die every single day by starving them to death, just be thankful we live in a civilised country becuse you would be worm food with the way you think.

when its kill or be killed i will always be the one doing the killing.

I would do what was necessary so yes, I would torture.

This is a well described scenario whereby torturing someone ends up in receiving information that can save lives.

But to inflict pain,torture,dismemberment and eventual death to save lives defeats the point.

Evil is Evil and committing an evil act to engineer a happy outcome does not make the act any LESS EVIL

So I say again No........there are other ways we can elicit this info without inflicting torture...!!!!!

..I agree with Nedusa that not authorising the torture wouldn't be the same as being responsible for the deaths of the people because I didn't actually authorise those deaths and am not responsible for any of the situation..that to me would be a bit like someone saying, if you don't do this, then I'll kill your family and maybe asking me to torture and kill someone else..and if I refused and they killed my family, then saying oh you did that/not me..it was your fault, when it wouldn't be my fault at all/the responsibility for all of it would be with the perpetrators/terrorists/murderer etc...

..yeah, I could say that I would do it and torture that person but there will still be no guarantee of an outcome that the people wouldn't be killed anyway because that's one thing that I could absolutely not guarantee in that situation because I don't have foresight, I would be putting my trust in someone who was asking me to kill someone and become what they were/barbaric and evil ...kind of the last people in the world you can trust...

..I think I would have to be true to myself and if people died, then it wouldn't have been me that had killed them or any of the responsibility mine....

You are though..in the scenario that the OP describes..

Torture's always a last ditch attempt used to break someone who won't be broken and doesn't really achieve much IMO because people will say anything to end their suffering.

Its like in a episode of 24
years ago.

A nuke bomb was ready
so the man that knew about it was wounded
and Jack B. Attacked the wound
to give him Extreme Pain.


On person Torture to save millions
Of course you would


Talk Sense you lot

Why do you have to reduce everything to a soundbyte that would fit on the front of a stallone movie DVD case?

Stallone is back in Rambo X, and this time he's really pissed.

"They drew first blood, but when it's kill or be killed, I will always be the one doing the killing"

It's not about disagreeing, because torture as a way of extracting information doesn't work. It's as simple as that.

When it comes to using evidence or opinion to back myself up, I will always be the one using evidence.

24 isn't a documentary. Thought I should probably clarify that for you.

people are funny
some wont use torture to save lives. thats shocking. but if the life was someone they loved i bet you any money they would be sharpening knifes and preparing the nut clamps lol

and some say torture doesn't work. well thats like saying its always sunny.
come here i can make you tell me where your porn stashes are lol

..I wouldn't be responsible for the deaths of people though because only the terrorists are responsible for laying the bomb and no one could absolutely guarantee that a torture of someone would prevent it going off and save lives, that would be totally impossible to predict...it would only ever be a possibility...

http://i.imgur.com/L4zWVGT.gif

I think saving millions, regardless of your point of view on torture, should be the main focus. Think of it as sacrificing your morals for this one good deed.

What good is having a righteous point of view on torture when your inaction causes all those deaths, I think that's a far greater evil than committing torture.

Torture isn't guaranteed to produce any kind of result and they could always lie about the location to make it end anyway and by the time they realise it's false information it will have inevitably gone off so...

Perhaps anyone that advocates, signs off or carries out acts of torture should be tortured themselves, maybe then they'll change their perspective

I would actually rather kill someone than torture them, it is barbaric, sadistic and disgusting and never justifiable

This is one of those topics that I could really get angry over so maybe it's best I leave this thread...

Yes Everyone knows

Its a Action Thriller


That makes sense

Ok I'm going to reply but I don't want you to get angry at me.

In the case that Josy put forward, a nuclear bomb is going to go off, you can torture the terrorist and find out the information you need, it's location and how to make it safe.

So in this scenario, torture works, and all you have to do is allow the torture to go ahead and you save millions. The alternative is, like what you want to do, is don't torture him and let millions of innocent people die. All so you will have an unsullied conscience.

Feck Me Jack
a Nuke is going to off
So give the Fecker Hell

Yes GyspyGoth
You Are Most Wise

I want waterboarding, sounds kinky as ****.

No its Choking as Water is forced down your throat FAST
Near Death

A liquid forced down throat is torture? :idc:


:hehe:

if torture did not work, government's would not use it. simple as that.

Torture doesn't always work, but sometimes it does. But there's more than one way to skin a cat. I'm not a fan of torture but I am a fan of chemicals and that'd be the first tool in my bag. As far as physical torture itself goes I think it would be far more effective to torture someone they loved. If it meant saving thousands of lives from terrorist scum, get in there with the pliers, that's what I say.

:umm2:

So you'd torture innocent people to protect innocent people? :huh:

No, I'd torture an innocent person who was close to a guilty person to save thousands of people.

I don't often quote you nowadays because you tend to take my comments too personally but I couldn't let this go...

You would torture innocent people to save innocent people !!!

Really ....??? So it's a numbers game save more than you kill and it's OK ??

Really..... Words fail me ....

If the alternatives are, let a terrorist and his loved one live in comfort... and let thousands of people die... or get information from the terrorist and his loved one in anyway I could and save thousands... it's a no brainer. It's all about the greater good.

This is a thread for people's opinions. No one's really going to die and no one's really going to torture anyone, so there's no need for the outrage and the exclamation marks.

There you go again... Taking my comments too personally

Btw I always use exclamation marks pretty much on all my posts !!

If you remove the gaps there's not that much content here either to be fair. And we are still waiting for this evidence.

..just to pick up on Livia's post..although I know that I personally couldn't authorise the torture of someone, I do think that what she says is very logical and ,ay be the most effective thing to try to prevent the loss of lives...in reality, although (as in most hypothetical dilemmas..)..this is an extreme, there are relatively few people who could make this decision and also relatively few who could implement it and I thank goodness that we have people like that...there is no 'morals' here or any lack of morals because either decision is a fairly awful one to have to make and if the situation did happen, I think we really would all want and hope that the 'right people/person' was there to make it because if they weren't then we would probably all be dead anyway...

..so although I could not personally do this because I know my own personal limitations, I would definitely want someone of Livia's mind-set 'on the job'...but that's also not to say that anyone like myself who couldn't do this or do 'what was needed' is in any way weaker or selfish either because that just isn't so...in certain crisis and certainly in one's of my own life and my friends/family etc..I have my own 'specific skills' in which I have definitely been the right person for that 'problem solving'..these are things that make us all different and why we do all need to be different and in a family situation for instance...there are things/dilemmas where my OH is just that right person and there are dilemmas and crisis where I am the right person and that kind of makes it all work out quite well because our children kind of know which parent would be the best one to ask advice on a specific thing..although we do both have 'little consultations' as well lol....


..anyway, I know I couldn't do this/wouldn't be the person to make this decision..but to be forced to authorise a barbaric act like torture would not be easy for anyone, neither would be having to implement it...whether someone could do it or couldn't do it, there is no higher or lower ground here..it's all to do with knowing yourself and knowing what your own capabilities/skills/strengths/weaknesses etc are ..knowing that you could be effective here but not in another crisis situation or that you wouldn't be effective here but would be in something else etc....in this specific thing, I would probably want Livia on my side or someone very much like her making that decision...which says nothing at all about her character or my character..other than we both have strengths and weaknesses in different things etc...as all people do..

So personally you couldn't do it, so you would order livia to do it because you know she could... Thanks for clearing that up ammi :laugh:

..that's not what I said at all but work awaits me...in the fighting forces and people who make those decisions, we are ever grateful to them and would not be what we are without them but that doesn't mean that we could all do the same/be the same otherwise we all would and would all be fairly much the same...

ammi, you have gone all around the houses!

put simply you could not make this decision!, but are happy if someone like myself or livia would.

let me put it to you in these terms, if it was you and you alone that had to make that decision, would you sleep better at night knowing you did not torture an evil man or that you let thousands of good people die?

I totally get what Ammi's saying. As a tenuous analogy... I'm glad there are people in the world who can look after physically and mentally disabled people, but I myself couldn't be a carer. I'm not the right type, I don't have the right stuff. Luckily, the human race is rich and varied and we all rely on each other for different things.

So... if you want someone tortured, PM thesheriff or me and we'll come to some kind of arrangement.

yes as you can not breath
so you choke - some die


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding