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-   -   Justice League - the Snyder Cut is COMING! plus DC movies in general (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367412)

Oliver_W 27-02-2021 03:59 PM
I can be a bit of a book purist (damn you Peej for leaving out Bombadil :fist: ) so it took a while for me to get over the fact the Snyderverse isn't exactly like the comics :laugh: someone suggested that the Synderverse fits better into the Dark Knight Returns comics line more than the "main", which it totally does.

At the end of the day ... none of it "actually" happened and I can either enjoy seeing a visual representation of something I like to read ... or I can bitch about it :joker:

That's a long winded way of saying I don't exactly care which one turns out to be better, but i'm glad Snyder gets to finish his story, especially when a)he left because his daughter took her own life and b)he was replaced by a Hollywood hack Whedon, he turned out to be a complete twat.

user104658 27-02-2021 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 11007881)
I can be a bit of a book purist (damn you Peej for leaving out Bombadil :fist: ) so it took a while for me to get over the fact the Snyderverse isn't exactly like the comics :laugh: someone suggested that the Synderverse fits better into the Dark Knight Returns comics line more than the "main", which it totally does.

At the end of the day ... none of it "actually" happened and I can either enjoy seeing a visual representation of something I like to read ... or I can bitch about it :joker:

That's a long winded way of saying I don't exactly care which one turns out to be better, but i'm glad Snyder gets to finish his story, especially when a)he left because his daughter took her own life and b)he was replaced by a Hollywood hack Whedon, he turned out to be a complete twat.
I randomly saw ol' Xander (Nicholas Brendon) in a film earlier tonight and decided to look him up with all of the domestic abuse allegations etc... but instead ended up going down a Whedon rabbit hole as, apparently, a tonne of people have come out with some not-so-great stuff about him very recently starting with the actress who played Cordelia in Buffy and Angel... but now quite a few other Buffy cast and crew, plus a few from the Justice League production (including Gal Gadot) have confirmed he's... umm... not great to work with.

The most concerning is that there was an "unofficial" rule amongt set staff on Buffy that they'd make sure he was never alone in a room with the actress who played Dawn... who was 15 at the time :umm2:. Doesn't elaborate other than to say he had made "inappropriate comments" around her and they decided to be on the safe side. Worrying!

Buffy herself SMG also made some vague supportive comments and has said that "she'll always be proud to be associated with the name Buffy Summers, but does not want to be forever associated with the name Joss Whedon."


So yeah... I feel like PURELY to stick it to Whedon, it's good that a version of JL is being made that hasn't been touched by him. Snyder has basically said that he butchered it, right down to leaving entire scenes out simply because they couldn't get the visuals to gel with his "newly filmed stuff" that had been done on different tech, but he refused to cut his own new scenes. I STRONGLY suspect that this is why a lot of the CGI is so poor.

Oliver_W 28-02-2021 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 11007986)
So yeah... I feel like PURELY to stick it to Whedon, it's good that a version of JL is being made that hasn't been touched by him. Snyder has basically said that he butchered it, right down to leaving entire scenes out simply because they couldn't get the visuals to gel with his "newly filmed stuff" that had been done on different tech, but he refused to cut his own new scenes. I STRONGLY suspect that this is why a lot of the CGI is so poor.
I hadn't thought of the new tech thing, movie making technology moves on pretty quick, it makes sense even in the relatively short amount of time the original footage was filmed ago, new stuff might not gel.

I've never heard anything really bad about Snyder. For a while I thought he might be the brother of Scott Snyder, who wrote Batman and JL comics. I mean ... This scene looks like it's roasting BvS for all the destruction their fight caused with no concern for citizens :joker:

But apparently they're not related and it's just a coincidence!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 11007986)
The most concerning is that there was an "unofficial" rule amongt set staff on Buffy that they'd make sure he was never alone in a room with the actress who played Dawn... who was 15 at the time :umm2:. Doesn't elaborate other than to say he had made "inappropriate comments" around her and they decided to be on the safe side. Worrying!
I guess the USA has different rules to the UK, but I occasionally do child protection work with the BBC, and kids under 16 literally aren't allowed to be left alone with anyone who's not a licensed chaperone; that includes directors and older actors. And that's from the time they're dropped off by their parents (or whoever) until they're picked up.

So as much as I'd like to Whedon-bash, that particular rule could have been an official one?

user104658 28-02-2021 09:56 AM
To be "fair" the accusations against Whedon aren't criminal in nature, more just about how awful he was to work for. Basically that he'd have his "favourites" who were "in" and then anyone else, he would treat like dirt/mock/belittle/gaslight and also you could be one of "the in group" one day, but then if you did something he didn't like, you'd be "out" until he decided otherwise. Has been described as running a "toxic workplace" basically and it seems that it's an ongoing thing, as people on his shows have said it was like that in the early 2000's and now people who worked on JL have said it was still like that when he took over there (so 2016-ish I guess?).

user104658 28-02-2021 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 11008071)



I've never heard anything really bad about Snyder. For a while I thought he might be the brother of Scott Snyder, who wrote Batman and JL comics. I mean ... This scene looks like it's roasting BvS for all the destruction their fight caused with no concern for citizens :joker:
Isn't that basically the whole plot of BvS though? Batman is not happy with Supes because his battle with Zod at the end of Man of Steel caused massive collateral damage in Metropolis, including destroying a Wayne building and killing civilians and staff... Which is why he decides Superman is dangerous and has to go. For his own fight with him he specifically lures him to an abandoned part of Gotham.

Oliver_W 28-02-2021 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 11008111)
Isn't that basically the whole plot of BvS though? Batman is not happy with Supes because his battle with Zod at the end of Man of Steel caused massive collateral damage in Metropolis, including destroying a Wayne building and killing civilians and staff... Which is why he decides Superman is dangerous and has to go. For his own fight with him he specifically lures him to an abandoned part of Gotham.
I can't remember BvS that well, so I'm happy to eat my words if I remembered wrong and Batman at least had some concern for civilians.

user104658 28-02-2021 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 11008113)
I can't remember BvS that well, so I'm happy to eat my words if I remembered wrong and Batman at least had some concern for civilians.
Yeah, his whole reason for wanting Supes dead was his assumption that he had no concern for civilians (thought of himself as a god, people as small and irrelevant etc.)... Which of course lead to the stupid "Our mums are both called Martha!" scene which was basically a ham-fisted way of Batman realising that Superman was also living as "a person" with a family etc. and cared about them.

The longer cut of course did a better job of explaining that Lex Luthor had been manipulating things to make Superman look guilty and turn them against each other. In the theatrical cut it really looked like Batman was just being a bit dumb.

user104658 28-02-2021 11:22 AM
So this thread sent me down a DC movies rabbit hole this morning... Apparently, Batfleck isn't done with after all? I thought he quit? But now I'm reading that he's in the Flash movie next year (possible cameos from other Batmen too; Keaton and Bale - as Flash is bringing in the multiverse) and also depending on the success of the Snyder cut, Cavill and Affleck are in talks about a "Worlds Finest" thing together (unclear if theatrical movie or HBO Max miniseries).

I've also heard rumours of them looking st casting Michael B Jordan as the first black Superman, but not as a recast, as an alternate universe Supes existing alongside Cavill's established one, and also that Batfleck and Battinson will co-exist... But there are plans for Cavill's Superman to work alongside R Patz's Batman at some point. :umm2:. Both Leto and Phoenix's jokers would also be Canon, as well as a likely 3rd Joker at some point for Pattinson. I feel like it's all getting very complicated, haha.

Not to mention that the Flash crossover with the CW's DC shows means that all of the DCTV stuff is official as well - so that means all three of the Brandon Routh, Tom Welling and Tyler Hoechlin supermens are all technically canon too. Hmmmm.

Nicky91 28-02-2021 02:22 PM
4 hours is just too long (just overkill i mean 3 hours is already too long, a reason why i have never watched any of Lord of the rings or the hobbit) :idc:


best is 2 hours 30, or 2 hours 45

for any of a ''franchise'' movie that is

Oliver_W 28-02-2021 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 11008147)
So this thread sent me down a DC movies rabbit hole this morning... Apparently, Batfleck isn't done with after all? I thought he quit? But now I'm reading that he's in the Flash movie next year (possible cameos from other Batmen too; Keaton and Bale - as Flash is bringing in the multiverse) and also depending on the success of the Snyder cut, Cavill and Affleck are in talks about a "Worlds Finest" thing together (unclear if theatrical movie or HBO Max miniseries).

I've also heard rumours of them looking st casting Michael B Jordan as the first black Superman, but not as a recast, as an alternate universe Supes existing alongside Cavill's established one, and also that Batfleck and Battinson will co-exist... But there are plans for Cavill's Superman to work alongside R Patz's Batman at some point. :umm2:. Both Leto and Phoenix's jokers would also be Canon, as well as a likely 3rd Joker at some point for Pattinson. I feel like it's all getting very complicated, haha.

Not to mention that the Flash crossover with the CW's DC shows means that all of the DCTV stuff is official as well - so that means all three of the Brandon Routh, Tom Welling and Tyler Hoechlin supermens are all technically canon too. Hmmmm.
I'm not sure what's going on with the black Superman thing - a few years back Michael B Jordan wanted to do a black Supes project, but it didn't happen for whatever reason. The upcoming Supes is being produced by JJ Abrams, and written by Ta-Nehisi Coates; I've not read anything by him, but from what little I've heard he's quite "Woke".

But yeah, I think his being the writer is the reason people think it's gonna be a Black Superman.

Oliver_W 18-03-2021 11:56 AM
1 Attachment(s)
Real life footage of Joss Whedon now

Tom4784 18-03-2021 12:59 PM
I've heard it's a vast improvement on Whedon's version but four hours is a big timesink. I dunno if I have the energy to watch it.

Barry. 18-03-2021 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 11019892)
I've heard it's a vast improvement on Whedon's version but four hours is a big timesink. I dunno if I have the energy to watch it.
I’m going to watch it in parts.

Oliver_W 18-03-2021 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 11019892)
I've heard it's a vast improvement on Whedon's version but four hours is a big timesink. I dunno if I have the energy to watch it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry. (Post 11019893)
I’m going to watch it in parts.
I'm more of a reader than a watcher so a lot of the time I get bored of a normal movie and watch it in chunks :joker: and the Snyder Cut was going to be a miniseries, so one may as well watch it an hour at a time or so.

user104658 19-03-2021 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 11019905)
I'm more of a reader than a watcher so a lot of the time I get bored of a normal movie and watch it in chunks :joker: and the Snyder Cut was going to be a miniseries, so one may as well watch it an hour at a time or so.
From what I've read, although they decided on keeping it as one long movie rather than "officially" dividing it up, it is still divided into distinct "chapters" (6 I think I read?) roughly the length of a TV show episode (40-45 mins) to give obvious "pause points" for people who don't want to or can't watch it all in one go.

I personally like long movies and can easily watch one all in one go... the issue for me is that it's VERY rare that I have 4 hours of uninterrupted free time to actually do that these days :joker:. Guess I could pretend to be sick one day when the kids are at school :laugh:. So much harder to "pull a sickie" working from home though, you have to pretend to be properly half-dead or people still try to message you :fist:.

user104658 21-03-2021 03:37 PM
Just finished it and I can't lie I thought it was awesome. It honestly didn't even feel over-long, although the first 3 parts basically fit in a load of content that could have been expanded into entire movies in themselves (e.g. there's practically an entire Cyborg origin movie scattered throughout the runtime).

But the one major thing that it has done - and it actually makes me feel sort of mad about WHedon's changes in this sense thinking back on it - is that it respects the others and isn't just a Superman fan-fest. Whedon turned Flash into a joke - he has moments of comic relief here but is NOT an incompetent rookie. Whedon (criminally) depowered WW and she absolutely kicks butt in this film, back to the power level she should be at in this timeframe (i.e. as strong as she was in BvS). Cyborg's abilities get a much bigger showcase, too. Basically the entire final sequence is epic and shows all of them as competent and powerful, and Supes is NOT used as a deus-ex-machina to swoop in. AND YET at the same time, Steppenwolf is a much more intimidating and convincing (and generally well fleshed out) villain, with clear goals and motivations.

More specifically but a bit spoilers;

Spoiler:

WW's intro action sequence is awesome, and she goes toe-to-toe quite competently with Steppenwolf MULTIPLE TIMES throughout the film, and WW and Aquaman together are basically shown as being a pretty even match for Steppenwolf (and could probably beat him, in other circumstances). I can't figure out why Whedon wouldn't want to showcase this version of WW.

Same goes for The Flash - the bumbling, incompetent Flash is - it seems - basically Whedon's creation? His powers were dampened significantly in the theatrical film and in the final battle he's relegated to "helping some civilians in a car". He plays a massive, pivotal role here! It's also made quite clear that he's significantly faster than Superman... even in that first Superman sequence (which is again just overall so much better... and it was one of my favourite scenes from the original) it's shown that Supes can't actually keep up with him, he can see him and swing at him but it's "sluggish" with Flash still able to easily dodge the blows, he just makes the error of trying to shove Superman back and ****s himself up because obviously it's like hitting a wall. Also in the finale he runs at, and eventually exceeding, light speed so... yeah... Whedon did him wrowng too. I feel like Joss Whedon actively fangirls Superman and it really shows in his cut, and is a massive detriment to the entire film. This feels like an actual team of superheroes where everyone has a part to play, and that's how Justice League should be, not a B-team of incompetents who need Superman to save the day.

But yeah in general... the changes in the final act really are staggering. Completely different movie. And some of the stuff that was left out - the whole Batmobile sequence! :omgno: amazing, HOW could you leave that on the cutting room floor? I can only imagine it was unfinished and was one of the sequences that they finished up for this. Also there are NO civilians to be saved and it doesn't need them, so no silly scenes with Flash pushing a car along while Supes carries an entire building :facepalm:.


But yeah tl;dr this is definite catharsis for any DC fan who doesn't just stan Superman, because it actually respects and elevates the other heroes and not just one.

If I had one minus it would probably be that there is some very occasional cheesy dialogue that feels a little out of place. But the general pacing is so good, and the action is so on-point, it's easily overlooked.

I also am unsure that the "epilogue" stuff was needed now that the DCEU has spun off in other directions, it feels like it was purely setting up stuff that is now not going to happen, and could just have been left off completely?

Spoiler:

It was basically setting up Injustice, even hinting at it being an alternate timeline which Injustice is in comic form, and while it could in theory be epic it's not realistically happening is it so why go there :hmph:.

Oliver_W 22-03-2021 12:58 PM
I'm still yet to see it but everything you said TS makes me happy :D

Spoiler:

I prefer Wally West Flash but yeah, neither are the bumbling fool Whedon presents. In most cases he is faster than Supes, but to the be it can depend on the writer. I liked that WW and Aquaman worked together, they do that a fair bit as neither have full time civilian identities.

user104658 22-03-2021 03:22 PM
Also not to go on about Snyder cinematography (and I am a self-confessed fan) BUT come on, you just don't get screenshots like this from yucky Whedon League do you. Obviously plenty of the same influence is there but literally all of the best shots of the movie are new to this version. I've left off one of my personal favs as it's a massive final-battle spoiler :omgno:. The two below are not really spoilery.

Spoiler:

https://i.imgur.com/8GrE2Ge.png

https://i.imgur.com/jrwPavD.png

Also a shot where Barry literally bursts out of his shoes immediately preceding this because he moves so fast when he sees the crash (hence bare feet here). Just an epic little touch that makes all the difference :shrug:

Oliver_W 22-03-2021 04:13 PM
Loving the Dark Knight Returns Batmobile :dance:

The Josstice League is officially dead.

Oliver_W 22-03-2021 07:01 PM
Ooo there's gonna be a movie with/about Zatanna :D She's one of my favourite minor Leaguers <3

I've not seen Promising Young Woman, any good? It's gonna be by Emerald Fennell, the writer-director of that.

Her history in comics is a bit dark:
Spoiler:

Sue Dibny, the wife of Elongated Man, was (apparently) murdered by a villain called Dr Light. A lot of the younger heroes (like the Titans etc and newer JLA members) were shocked by this, as up to that point he'd basically been a joke villain...
... But he was a joke villain because he was basically lobotomised by Zatanna's magic several years ago, after he broke into the JLA's headquarters and raped Sue. The no-kill rule was in place, but none of the JLA could bear the thought of imprisoning him or letting him go, so they came up with that idea.
The vote was split, with Batman as the tie-breaker. He was against it. But they did it anyway, and Zatanna erased his memories of the event. She did the same with Superman, as he'd be likely to tell Bruce.

I will add, it sounds "women in refrigerators", but it's not. Sue's death wasn't a plot device to drive Elongated's emotions, it was a catalyst which was the first of a handful of people close to hero's being hit.
Spoiler:

I've not read Identity Crisis in ages so some of the details might be a bit wrong, but that's the gist of it!


I just googled Promising Young Woman, and Emerald Fennell clearly doesn't shy away from rape related things, so I wouldn't discount them using that book as a framework for the movie, but who knows!

arista 27-03-2021 02:05 PM
4 Hour Movie on SkyMoviesHD : Zack Snyder's Justice League
 
The 240mins Movie


Zack walked away from this Movie
but due to popular demand went back
Zack Snyder's Definitive cut.


8PM tonight till Midnight SkyPremiereHD



I will record it.

Alf 27-03-2021 02:06 PM
Sounds awful!

Zizu 27-03-2021 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf (Post 11024810)
Sounds awful!


It’s absolutely brilliant !!




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arista 27-03-2021 11:26 PM
Yes longer version.

Zizu 28-03-2021 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arista (Post 11025150)
Yes longer version.


With many extended scenes , lots of brand new footage also


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arista 28-03-2021 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zizu (Post 11025158)
With many extended scenes , lots of brand new footage also



With so much time
they could have done a 3-D Version
as an addition.
For those that like 3-D.


I know you do not

arista 28-03-2021 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 11007838)
The aesthetics were never the issue with Snyder's offerings, tbh. I just don't know if there's actually anything to work with to create a good cohesive film, especially when it looks like they're just throwing everything into it.

The original Justice League felt overly long and it was under two hours, I think this will end up being a slog.

Yes Hard to watch in one go
uses 4.6 of my Hard Drive on SkyHD


I watched in 2 halfs.

arista 28-03-2021 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 10900780)
There was tons of reshoots, and last I heard some new footage will be shot too.

Yes there sure was.


On SkyMoviesHD all week

Zizu 28-03-2021 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arista (Post 11025159)
With so much time

they could have done a 3-D Version

as an addition.

For those that like 3-D.





I know you do not


True :)

It’s getting far better viewer ratings on IMDB so I’m thinking there may be a sequel / follow up eventually... given that money talks


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Zizu 28-03-2021 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arista (Post 11025161)
Yes Hard to watch in one go

uses 4.6 of my Hard Drive on SkyHD





I watched in 2 halfs.


I watched it in THREE goes :)

The only bits I could have done without were the lovey-dovey sequence with Superman and Lois Lane plus that Batman dream section


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Oliver_W 28-03-2021 01:21 PM
Youtube video

I'm still yet to watch the movie itself, but this scene is absolutely gorgeous.

Zizu 28-03-2021 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 11025257)
Youtube video

I'm still yet to watch the movie itself, but this scene is absolutely gorgeous.


Yes I agree totally.. one of my favourites


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

user104658 28-03-2021 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 11025257)
Youtube video

I'm still yet to watch the movie itself, but this scene is absolutely gorgeous.

Yeah that was a standout for me, that’s the scene I took one of my screenshots from. It’s a stand-alone great piece of cinematography, I have no idea why they wouldn’t find room to squeeze it into the theatrical cut, other than a couple of things I guess... one is that it might have been hard to crop well for the cinema aspect ratio. I was a bit alarmed when I heard the Snyder cut was presented in 4:3 (old TV ratio) but after a couple of action sequences... I completely get it and why it actually works so much better for this types of movies. They can do so much with the verticality of that space. Beautiful.

user104658 28-03-2021 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zizu (Post 11025200)
I watched it in THREE goes :)

The only bits I could have done without were the lovey-dovey sequence with Superman and Lois Lane plus that Batman dream section


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I don’t mind Supes and Lois really,it’s how they showcase his humanity but that said they probably highlighted it because it’s a huge part of what leads to the “injustice” plotline (Superman going dark after the death of Lois) and that’s also what the Batman dream sequence was setting up. I do actually agree though that, as it’s most likely not happening and WB has gone in a different direction with DC, I think the future dream sequence could have been cut. All it does is tease a movie that will never exist.

Zizu 28-03-2021 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 11025381)
I don’t mind Supes and Lois really,it’s how they showcase his humanity but that said they probably highlighted it because it’s a huge part of what leads to the “injustice” plotline (Superman going dark after the death of Lois) and that’s also what the Batman dream sequence was setting up. I do actually agree though that, as it’s most likely not happening and WB has gone in a different direction with DC, I think the future dream sequence could have been cut. All it does is tease a movie that will never exist.


Well being cynical... given that the new version is getting rave reviews.. even the IMDB viewer ratings are far better ..

I just wondered if MONEY will talk and influence the decisions ??


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user104658 28-03-2021 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zizu (Post 11025405)
Well being cynical... given that the new version is getting rave reviews.. even the IMDB viewer ratings are far better ..

I just wondered if MONEY will talk and influence the decisions ??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
The only way I can see it happening, would be for them to spin-off a "Snyderverse" (not impossible with how the DC universe works) and do a full sequel the same way they did this - straight to streaming with no theatrical release. The issues there are, can it make enough money that way to justify the budget, and also can they secure "Big Screen" cast to sign off on making it. I think Cavill would be likely to be on board (schedule permitting), Ray Fisher (cyborg) is likely as well given that the bulk of his acting has been stage/television. The others, especially Affleck, I'm not sure would sign up if it wasn't a theatrical release.

Oliver_W 28-03-2021 08:28 PM
re Supes and Lois, when it comes to the comics the only "run" of stories about Superman which aren't him in the League are when he and Lois are married and have a son, those books are just awesome. So I don't mind them being loveydovey per say, but I've not seen the film yet, maybe that aspect of it is unbearable :joker:

As for Ray Fisher, I fear he may have burned his bridges when it comes to WB. I'm all for calling out Joss Whedon for his toxic behaviour, but Fisher tried to implicate eeveeeryone, including Geoff Johns, which makes me doubt what he's saying - GJ has been writing comics for decades, and has good conduct all the way through. He's also been a very inclusive writer, and I have no reason to think he was racist toward Fisher.
- At worst I'd say he had his Hollywood hat on, and said "look, Joss Whedon is too big, it sucks but put-up-and-shut-up, which is ****ty, I say drag the toxic bastard down, don't enable or overlook his actions. But overall GJ is one of the good guys.


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