I know that and I know it's not your usual form, I'm really not trying to be nasty either, I can assure you that the only place I ever come from on this topic is a women's rights angle, I've always been pretty vocal on women's rights issues (and not just when it concerns trans rights either) I would love a solution where everyone is happy but some of the issues (like sport) I just can't see how you can make it fair on biological women to allow transwomen compete against them, reducing testosterone just isn't enough

Scarlett is right though, forum is full of gross transphobia.

Where?

There is not one transphobic comment been posted in this thread so how about actually adding to the debate instead of looking for a reaction.

This thread has had more abuse thrown at women but ok whatever:bored:

Largely my stance is that it would be great if there were solutions that worked for everyone, and I feel that there MUST be solutions that at least come close, but that they are likely not simple at all and will take a lot of figuring out and it's basically impossible for that work to be done so long as its the battleground that it is right now. Though I think it's understandable for people to want it to be "Easy. Simple. Just accept this; ________. Done" on a myriad of issues, it's pretty much human nature. Sadly there's rarely any such thing as a simple answer.

No matter how thinly veiled, it's still transphobia.

And, I'm guessing no one saw Arista's comment if they want proof

Oh arista's baiting has long gone ignored I'll give you that.

The former chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has raised concerns over the ongoing “toxic” debate around transgender rights in the UK and its long-term impact on the country.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9661801.html


Its a common opinion if you google it

Ahh come on it was posted by arista. He exists in a pocket universe where there are no moderation rules at all. It's the only explanation I've been able to come up with in 7.5 years.

no wonder that person is the former chair of that commission then


long-term impact on the country? :umm2: being transphobic just like homophobia is a disease, that is more a problem for the UK

and this calls itself ''equality, human rights commission'' :skull:

Then you should of asked them what they meant , this is a sensitive complicated issue . And throwing insults around without a proper debate doesn't solve anything.

My brain sometimes just automatically disregards his posts tbh so it didn't occur to me someone would take it seriously :joker:

What if we prefer the opposite sex?

Can't believe this has turned into an AERT thread :worry:

(Arista Exclusionary Rational Tibbers)

You are correct, I was dumb

Then report the post/s that concerns you and add to the debate in future instead of entering the thread just to champion comments that insult other members.

It would be nice to think that the issue could be resolved without anyone being offended or disadvantaged but that needs people to discuss it and come up with solutions

No, I won't just report transphobia lol

I too am disgusted, it is the 21st year of the 21st century!!! Let start treating all with respect.

The problem sometimes is that it's compared directly with women's rights and gay rights battles when it's actually more complex because there are worries and challenges coming from women, who are undeniably another recent (and let's face it... Still current) group fighting to gain rights. I think that gets pushed aside quite often. Women's rights are still lacking in areas and frankly extremely fragile... But their being viewed in the same light as, for example, the privileged gammons-in-power who were against gay rights. Its just not the same at all.

Worse still is the clash between the lesbian and transgender communities because let's be honest... Gay women have always been the poor cousins of LGBT.

will always be differences between a trans women and a biological women, hardly transphobic to say that its just biology and most trans people will acknowledge that, its only transphobic if you are insulting the person and i don't really see that as an insult, they are still a trans women end of the day, you ain't calling them a man.

You were not and are not dumb. :love: Its obviously a very sensitive subject for you and its awful you are facing **** from people. Sadly, though there will always be dickheads but most people (on here) will not be coming at you or trans issues as a whole from a place of malice. :hugs:

Stop pretending that you care about fairness in sports when that is one of the least relevant parts of the conversation. If that was the only problem people had with trans women then there wouldn't be the same transphobia over and over on the forum. Yes, calling a transwoman a man is transphobia.

Yeah it's very complex , and the problem is everyone part of the LGBT community just all get thrown together and seen as "weird" which isn't fair. And we see the argumentative activists who speak for them on TV alot which doesn't represent the whole community really.

And we don't hear much about trans men , it's usually trans women.

But I remember both boys and girls actually had to share the same toilets in infants, but nobody seemed to think it was odd at the time. But things are different today.

There's nastiness associated with any debate. Not really a reason to shout down any discussion on it.

It's not just sports, but female spaces in general.

But sports is an example which is easy to understand, as males are (in general) stronger and faster than females, giving them an advantage.

And I couldn't have said it any better than you have. :lovedup::lovedup:

It seems that lately it's always the threads about sexuality and gender that trigger the most heated conversations and obvious ignorance.

Some people really feel fragile and threatened when it comes to how others live their lives. Just move on and accept others for what they are, it really is not hard.:shrug: Nobody is attacking or threatening you, just relax and love it.

When it comes to public toilets I am PERSONALLY still a massive advocate of unisex single-cubicles. More and more places have them and I think it's absolutely the way forward. In all honesty, I don't particularly like sharing bathroom space with ANYONE so I'm quite biased here.

Also, as the male parent of a female child with additional needs, they are a godsend. It wasn't so much of an issue when she was really little, but she's 8 now so I don't really want to troop her in past the grubby blokes at the urinals to a cubicle in a men's toilets... and I can't just wander on into the ladies with her... so if there isn't an available disabled toilet it becomes an issue. A few nearby shopping complexes/malls just have rows of individual locking bathrooms now and I love it. In the 21st century... I just can't see many good arguments to not make this "the norm" for toilets/changing areas/etc. Solves a multitude of very basic problems.

The irony really is in how naive and ignorant this post is :shrug:.

"Shut up women, your rights are not being attacked or threatened, just relax and love it".

Massively problematic.

Yet it seems this kind of condescending misogyny is acceptable.

Not.

sports is highly relevant if you are passionate about it and even if you are not surely you would want a level playing ground for biological women and not to be done out of achievements because someone is biologically built different and allowed to compete in the field you are in

But their rights aren't being attacked though. From what I understood by reading, listening trans people, listening women themselves etc That's getting educated on certain topics that I'm not personally concerned with. I think that's fair to get interested in what others live and go through. And I'm not saying what others feel is not valid either.


It's always been proven that Trans rights are women’s rights too, one doesn't put at risk the others and I think it's a pity some people try to put these two against each other when things can be worked out. I always feel a little bit sad when I see feminists fighting with trans activists. It requires a lot of education and talking and really be aware to work it out.
I didn't mean any harm to anyone. If anything, I've always been a promoter of unisex toilets with solutions that come with them (because that seems to be the issue here), and equal rights for all. :love:

If someone thinks their rights are at risk, and you think otherwise, you need to explain why their fears are misplaced... carefully, in detail, and respecting those worries. "Lol no you are wrong, be quiet and relax" is dismissive at very best and yes I agree with Marsh, straight-up misogyny at worst. Massive conotations.

I wasn't specifically talking about that issue in particular, but more so about the general feel I get lately on this forum that there's a lot of heated debates around that and how we still have a long way to go before completely accepting people for their genders and sexualities without judging them or making assumptions about who is who and who loves who and what. What I said is that it really can't be that hard to accept people for who they are. I mean, why the hatred ans refusal to get educated on this topic.:shrug: That's the feel I got lately and I get it that not everybody shares that and I'm OK with that.

That's basically all I said and I wish everybody would be more open-minded and accepting of people that are marginalized and discriminated on.

Exactly, thank you!

refusing to listen to the thoughts of one side of any debate and even worse accusing them falsely of hate crimes and spreading misinformation for having concerns, is a mirror of what Trump tried to achieve in America. Thought for the day.

Again, in what way was it misogyny though?
What I meant is that trans people are not threatening anybody, they're being themselves. How is that against women?
I also agreed with Jessica that calling a transwoman a man is transphobia. Because it is. I'm not the one saying it because I decided so, it's the people that are concerned about it that express that.

Back to the topic, I think that more educating surrounding the toilets or locker rooms can do a long way so that fears are not only misplaced but gone. We hear many stories and feedbacks that unisex toilets have not increased violence for example.
Education is for the better, I believe. Both women rights and trans rights don't have to be put against each other.

people do care about things like that though and its a huge topic because sports is a big deal to so many people around the world its not about being fragile its about giving women equal opportunity to compete with other biological women, why does that make anyone fragile or threatened in anyway? their are differences that you have to accept when it comes to things like that, no good turning a blind eye to it.

I've literally never seen anyone on this forum do what you've said in the bit in bold there; any and all concerns I see are about how it affects single-sex spaces and sex segregated sports, and general concerns about how trans issues interact with already existing gender equality debates.

Valid and important debate issues and attempting to shut them down by accusing people who are interested in these issues of being transphobic, judgemental or uneducated is an extremebly dubious stance, and in my opinion, a quite deliberate shaming tactic or strawman. There's just no place for it in an actually educated debate, or anywhere outside outrage-culture.