Notices

Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 21-01-2021, 04:53 PM   #1
Oliver_W
#BatmanLovesMilk
 
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 10,386

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie
BB19: Cameron
CBB22: Kirstie Alley


Default "Bidenís trans rights agenda is bad news for women and girls" - Debbie Hayton

Quote:
Joe Biden has wasted little time grabbing rights from women and girls across America. On day one, he signed an Executive Order on 'Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation'. This is being hailed as a pivotal moment for transgender rights. But it's nothing of the sort.

The mention of 'Gender Identity' alone is enough to raise the alarm about the consequences of this proposal. Gender identity might be a popular concept right now, but it isn't even clear what it means. Put simply, it's a concept which refers to a person's individual experience of gender, which may or may not correspond with the sex assigned at birth. All too often, though, this rather circular definition is underpinned by sexist stereotypes involving dress, speech, and mannerisms.

Biden will be hailed as 'progressive' for this initiative, but don't be fooled: gender identity is about a feeling that some people claim to possess. And when this feeling displaces biological sex as a means of dividing society we should all worry. After all, if we ignore sex, we ignore sexism.

Worryingly, too, this order could sweep away girls' sex-based rights. The first paragraph tells us this:

'Children should be able to learn without worrying about whether they will be denied access to the restroom, the locker room, or school sports.'

Let’s be clear about what this means in reality: boys who identify as girls could soon be able to use girls' locker rooms, even if girls using those facilities feel uncomfortable about that. And in school sports, boys who identify as girls could soon be competing alongside girls, despite often having physical advantages, such as being stronger or taller than their peers.

This isn't simply my interpretation of Biden's order. The order cites a Supreme Court ruling – Bostock v Clayton County – to argue that sex discrimination laws covers discrimination on the basis of gender identity. Within 100 days, plans will need to be drawn up to ensure that boys who identify as girls are not discriminated against on the basis of their gender identity.

You can see where this is going. Abigail Shrier, author of Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters, was clinical in her analysis:

'A new glass ceiling was just placed over girls.'

She's right. And there is a good reason why 'Biden Erased Women' is now trending on Twitter. The very laws that were established to protect the rights of girls to single sex toilets, changing rooms and sports could soon be turned upside down by presidential decree. Legislation that was intended to protect the rights of girls to single-sex provision could now make single-sex services impossible. Assuming, that is, you agree with me that sex is determined by our biology and not by feelings in our heads, you'll share in my view that this is bad news. If you disagree with me, then you may well think I am an appalling transphobic bigot.

This is not about me, however; it is about girls in America. If they want to avoid being labelled as transphobic – or worse – they will be expected to make room for boys who identify as girls. And not just in the locker room. Scholarships, bursaries, protected places in politics and public life: everything is up for grabs.

If I am charitable, I would say that Biden is trying to be kind to transgender people – like me – who do face discrimination simply because we do not conform to the expectations placed on our sex. The tragedy is that his naivety – that men and boys will not take advantage – has eclipsed the work that needs to be done, and is being done.

On Biden's first day as president, White House press secretary Jen Psaki announced that Biden will soon reverse the ban on transgender people serving openly in the military. Good. But protecting transgender people from discrimination does not require rights to be removed from others. That is where Biden’s Executive Order goes wrong. Indeed the resentment that is already brewing among women – and rightly so – eats into the acceptance that transgender people have hitherto enjoyed. If Biden is not careful he will end up pleasing nobody.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...news-for-women
Thoughts?

I don't think people generally want their teen daughters sharing female spaces with boys, even if the boys do identify as girls...

Sex based rights are important, including the rights to female only spaces; why couldn't Biden help out transwomen without negatively affecting women.
__________________

(apparently "boner" used to mean mistake, or something...)

Last edited by Oliver_W; 21-01-2021 at 05:16 PM.
Oliver_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 04:54 PM   #2
UserSince2005
User banned
 
UserSince2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 4,613

Favourites:
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB14: Frenchy
BB10: Noirin
Default

Hes a monster.
__________________
-Working towards a friendlier TIBB
UserSince2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 04:55 PM   #3
Oliver_W
#BatmanLovesMilk
 
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 10,386

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie
BB19: Cameron
CBB22: Kirstie Alley


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserSince2005 View Post
Hes a monster.
I wouldn't go that far, it probably came from a good, if misjudged place.
__________________

(apparently "boner" used to mean mistake, or something...)
Oliver_W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 04:58 PM   #4
Niamh.
I Love my brick
 
Niamh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 130,328

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Shane Lynch


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
I wouldn't go that far, it probably came from a good, if misjudged place.
I agree. Allowing biological males compete against biological females in sports competing for college places for example is going to expose the pitfalls with this and the ways in which it can be abused. I'm sure it's all come from a good place and a want to be inclusive but you don't want to end up excluding biological girls/women in the process either
__________________

Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiRTh View Post
You compare Jim Davidson to Nelson Mandela?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus. View Post
I know, how stupid? He's more like Gandhi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14 View Post



Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
Niamh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:05 PM   #5
parmnion
What!
 
parmnion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: ESSEX via scotland
Posts: 31,282

Favourites:
BB18: Deborah
CBB18: Heavy D
BB17: Hughie
BB4: Cameron


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
I wouldn't go that far, it probably came from a good, if misjudged place.
Hes a ****ing idiot then
__________________
@staysafetibbusers.
parmnion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:08 PM   #6
Jessica.
NO BIGOTS ALLOWED
 
Jessica.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Portugal
Posts: 23,927
Blog Entries: 2

Favourites (more):
IAC2019: Caitlyn Jenner
CBB15: Alicia Douvall
BB15: Jale
CBB9: Nicola McLean


Default

Trans women are women, they deserve to be treated the same as other women no matter what.
__________________

Release the beast!
👹BIMINI 👹

Jessica. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:09 PM   #7
Marsh.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 78,624


Default

Tbf there's a lot of "COULD soon be".
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:12 PM   #8
Jessica.
NO BIGOTS ALLOWED
 
Jessica.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Portugal
Posts: 23,927
Blog Entries: 2

Favourites (more):
IAC2019: Caitlyn Jenner
CBB15: Alicia Douvall
BB15: Jale
CBB9: Nicola McLean


Default

Also why is the disgust always towards trans women? Do trans men not make you all feel fragile either?
__________________

Release the beast!
👹BIMINI 👹

Jessica. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:12 PM   #9
Niamh.
I Love my brick
 
Niamh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 130,328

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Shane Lynch


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica. View Post
Trans women are women, they deserve to be treated the same as other women no matter what.
Spouting off a catch phrase isn't reality though, there are biological advantages males have over females, that's the whole reason sport was separated by sex in the first place so how is it fair on biological girls/women to change that separation now to gender separation instead of sex? nobody has a gender advantage when it comes to sport
__________________

Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiRTh View Post
You compare Jim Davidson to Nelson Mandela?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus. View Post
I know, how stupid? He's more like Gandhi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14 View Post



Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
Niamh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:13 PM   #10
Scarlett.
Happy New Year
 
Scarlett.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 40,336


Default

-Me being dumb-
__________________

Last edited by Scarlett.; 21-01-2021 at 05:50 PM.
Scarlett. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:15 PM   #11
Niamh.
I Love my brick
 
Niamh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 130,328

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Shane Lynch


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica. View Post
Also why is the disgust always towards trans women? Do trans men not make you all feel fragile either?
It's not disgust to point out a biological reality. Again when it comes to sport it's to do with transwomen because they're the ones with the biological advantage. I've not seen a transman beat any male sports records yet, there's been quite a few women's records beaten so far though by transwomen, why do you think that is?
__________________

Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiRTh View Post
You compare Jim Davidson to Nelson Mandela?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus. View Post
I know, how stupid? He's more like Gandhi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14 View Post



Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
Niamh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:15 PM   #12
Marsh.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 78,624


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica. View Post
Also why is the disgust always towards trans women? Do trans men not make you all feel fragile either?
Who has shown disgust? No one.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:15 PM   #13
Scarlett.
Happy New Year
 
Scarlett.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 40,336


Default

-Me being dumb-
__________________

Last edited by Scarlett.; 21-01-2021 at 05:50 PM.
Scarlett. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:16 PM   #14
Niamh.
I Love my brick
 
Niamh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 130,328

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Shane Lynch


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlett. View Post
This is Big Terfs back at it again
I'm a woman, I have a right to speak up about women's rights without being insulted. Do you disagree with the point I made? If so what have I said that is incorrect?
__________________

Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiRTh View Post
You compare Jim Davidson to Nelson Mandela?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus. View Post
I know, how stupid? He's more like Gandhi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14 View Post



Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
Niamh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:17 PM   #15
Scarlett.
Happy New Year
 
Scarlett.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 40,336


Default

-Me being dumb-
__________________

Last edited by Scarlett.; 21-01-2021 at 05:50 PM.
Scarlett. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:18 PM   #16
Marsh.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 78,624


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlett. View Post
Terfs are toxic and this forum is full of them and I'm sick of biting my toungue you can all go **** yourselves
If you can't actually respond to anything Niamh said it's probably best to say nothing.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:18 PM   #17
Scarlett.
Happy New Year
 
Scarlett.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 40,336


Default

-Me being dumb-
__________________

Last edited by Scarlett.; 21-01-2021 at 05:51 PM.
Scarlett. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:18 PM   #18
Marsh.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 78,624


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlett. View Post
I dont ****ing care, terf
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:19 PM   #19
Niamh.
I Love my brick
 
Niamh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 130,328

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Shane Lynch


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlett. View Post
I dont ****ing care, terf
lovely
__________________

Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiRTh View Post
You compare Jim Davidson to Nelson Mandela?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus. View Post
I know, how stupid? He's more like Gandhi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14 View Post



Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
Niamh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:19 PM   #20
UserSince2005
User banned
 
UserSince2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 4,613

Favourites:
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB14: Frenchy
BB10: Noirin
Default

__________________
-Working towards a friendlier TIBB
UserSince2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:20 PM   #21
Vicky.
0_o
 
Vicky.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 63,781


Default

It comes from a good place, however there is no thought whatsoever about female people. In sports particularly. There is a lot of evidence that its unfair, yet some still push for it (see Stonewall still pushing for transwomen in womens rugby, in the face of the evidence that shows this is very dangerous aswell as unfair). Because..well women don't matter seemingly. Won't post anymore in this as know how these threads go, but Debbie Hayton..I tend to agree with on most things. She is also a transwoman, but one who acknowledges biological reality and thinks about women aswell as trans people instead of putting women at the back of the line for everything. The lack of consideration for women during this whole 'trans rights' thing is vile tbh. Yet women are the bigoted ones for saying they should be bloody considered while their rights and protections are stripped away. Its possible to advance trans rights without trampling over womens rights. There are many ways to do this. Just activists seem to not want to do that, much easier to just threaten women into silence and take over. Activists seem the issue in this tbh, as actual transsexual people tend to be decent people who think about all, such as Debbie Hayton. Such transsexual people, get as much grief and threats from activists as women who dare to speak up do!

Tbh, these days I don't even take 'terf' as an insult. Because its thrown at anyone who gives any thought to biological women. Even if they also support trans people (or transwomen, that should be. Given transmen are kind of invivisble in this. Which is odd as if that followed the usual pattern, transmen activists would be the ones shouting over women and transwomen.)...just the fact they think about women is horrendous and bigoted.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky91 View Post
always cook meals, i did have chinese takeaways the year before the corona **** happened
but now not into takeaways anymore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. View Post
Did you get them delivered from Wuhan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
I would just like to take a second to congratulate Vicky, for creating the first Tibb post that needed chapters and a bibliography.

Last edited by Vicky.; 21-01-2021 at 05:23 PM.
Vicky. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:20 PM   #22
Scarlett.
Happy New Year
 
Scarlett.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 40,336


Default

-Me being dumb-
__________________

Last edited by Scarlett.; 21-01-2021 at 05:51 PM. Reason: Also me being dumb
Scarlett. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:21 PM   #23
Toy Soldier
Deep State Storm Trooper
 
Toy Soldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: ➜
Posts: 24,740
Blog Entries: 1


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. View Post
Tbf there's a lot of "COULD soon be".
Hmm. I sort of see this... I honestly don't think, if women's sports got to the point where the top tiers were entirely dominated by transwomen, or it was obvious that things like sports scholarships were being hoovered up by transwomen, that it would continue forever. I think if it happened, action would be taken to stop it happening. They would stuff the genie back in the bottle.

But that would come with a whooole range of other problems.
__________________

___________________________________


Toy Soldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:21 PM   #24
Marsh.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 78,624


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlett. View Post
How about shut the **** up
If this is your only response to Niamh's argument it only makes her seem more right.

An emotional response instead of a logical one doesn't convince anyone.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 05:22 PM   #25
Marsh.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 78,624


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlett. View Post
Almost as lovely as having your existence questioned every ****ing day, and then the same people who question your existence claim they're being silenced
Niamh hasn't questioned your existence. She's discussing actual examples where women and transwomen ARE different.

Acting like a child about it doesn't change this.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmark/share this topic

Tags
debbie, hayton

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:11 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
no new posts