Originally Posted by bitontheslide (Post 11475440)

Portsmouth is also a big naval base

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 11475433)

Hello Livia.

Just seen this so am happy to say how I see things.

The Labour Party membership has now twice, along with the MPs and Unions at Labour conferences voted to adopt PR .
The last time overwhelmingly so.

It's estimated 80+% of members support PR.
The Unions overwhelmingly do.
Plus more than half the last number of MPs too.

Infuriatingly Starmer stated, PR was not a policy for the manifesto in this election just passed.
However the Labour movement wants it so will still keep on for it.
I will and despite this election win I've seen no change from the membership as to still wanting it.

In 1997 Labour won big then it was gone after 2 more elections.
That will definitely happen again after the next election or one after that.
I think Starmer knows that too.

The votes were poor in this election.
Only 34% to Labour.
A Conservative revival would soon get their votes rising.
So while powerful this government can be, it hasn't had a massive vote endorsement.

Now, I'll never vote Reform or want Reform to do well.
However I believe in fairness and justice.
No electoral system that sees the Parties winning power on a paltry number of votes is right in my view.

Reform got 14% and 5 seats.
LibDems got 12% and 72 seats.
The Greens, they got less than 7% but only one seat less than Reform on 4.

No wonder over a third of voters don't even vote.

I would hope and would fight for PR, it has to come from in the present, Conservative or Labour Parties.
Because if one of them is weak the other is likely to be strong and this ridiculous electoral system will go on.

If Labour are doing okay but not moving much forward in 3 to 4 years
I can see PR being in the next manifesto.
Because that would I believe, ensure Labour wins easily again.
Since even Reform would be supporting that.
Along with every other Party and Independents elected to this parliament.
Plus it's already been passed and called for at 2 Labour conferences.

PR in my view would be fairer.
Seats for votes, not seats as gifts.
Real change to votes being made to really count and decide more representative government..

If that meant Reform broke through then so be it.
That's what's called democracy.
PR would ensure that no single Party could likely win a big majority for a minority of votes
So the government would be of at least 2 Parties to govern with real authority.

If too, however, Starmer and Labour were successful this time in government.
Then the way they could likely best protect their successes would be to have PR in place.
So no way could the Conservatives with a majority alone tear up any successes.

The argument for me however is one of fairness and justice.
I came to this view in 2005 aged 13.
When I saw Labour get 35.2% of the votes, the Conservatives getting 32.3%, yet Labour in with a 68 overall majority.
No way right.
A voting system that can create that outcome has to be unfair.

I rarely agree with Nigel Farage however he calls this fair votes when he talks of PR.
He's right on that.

Starmer can ride high now, as Blair did and even Thatcher did.
However it will crash again because of this electoral system which may well give strong government but not the right and fair government.

That's why I support PR.
I also believe it's closer than ever before now.
Since it has been passed at 2 Labour conferences.

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 11475216)

A long space between electing a new leader can create problems too.

In Labour for instance, when James Callaghan lost to Margaret Thatcher in May 1979.
He stayed in place for 18 months until November 1980.

Hoping to likely make the best choice of new leader.

Result, they elected Michael Foot.
Which brought about the splits on the European union, leading to the creation from former Labour MPs of the Social Democratic Party, SDP.

I hope the Conservatives will reflect on political history.
Because like then , they need to see off the really awful Reform Party set up.
The very thought of narcissist Farage becoming the real opposition leader or worse still ever gaining power should be really worrying as much as it could be dangerous.

The Conservatives are the oldest political Party, they have been a formidable winning machine in elections.
I'm Labour but I respect the Conservatives as political foes.
However I don't want either to see them destroyed, and certainly not for an extreme divisive outfit such as the UKIP/Brexit and now in its 3rd stage Reform all still under the same narcissistic divisive Farage.

I'm not sure Badenoch would be the right choice but it's not for me to really comment.
I liked Tom Tugendhat before.
If I was a Conservative I'd likely be supporting someone more like him.

However I really hope they make a good choice because like with Labour in the 80s
Who had to get someone in place to see off the split voting between Labour and the Liberal/SDP Alliance
Here and now the Conservatives need to ensure they move to see off Reform.
Not letting Farage etc; get any stronger hold.
I hope the Conservative Party will succeed in that.

Originally Posted by Zizu (Post 11475284)

Rishi and the other lily livered lemmings just jumped ship because the media and labour went on a witch hunt .. Rishi renounced his leader and supposed friend .. promised the earth and steered the country into an abyss


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock (Post 11475713)

Tbf to Rishi and Boris, it's largely Cameron and May's fault why we're in the mess that we're in now, especially Cameron who was completely incompetent at his job.

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper (Post 11475719)

He was cruel and cowardly, not incompetent. His 2010 austerity policies, have been directly linked to the deaths of over 300k sick and disabled people.

Originally Posted by GiRTh (Post 11481887)

Has Suella Braverman joined reform yet?

Originally Posted by bitontheslide (Post 11481891)

not yet, she wants to make it at a point of maximum impact, so it could be a few years :laugh:

Originally Posted by Maru (Post 11482432)

Tory Who?...

Originally Posted by arista (Post 11483371)

5 Now

Priti Patel now running to be the Leader.

Originally Posted by arista (Post 11483371)

5 Now

Priti Patel now running to be the Leader.

Originally Posted by arista (Post 11483242)

4 so far are running to be leader

James Cleverly MP
Tom Tugendhat MP
Robert Jenrick MP
Mel Stride MP

Any others have until Monday.

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 11483406)

Fine looking woman

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 11483406)

Fine looking woman