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http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...91_634x286.jpg
The PM is in Ibiza with his Nice Wife.
But still in charge and able to get back fast.

Thats better than that horrible
New Labour Brown bloke
wearing the wrong clothes
on a UK holiday (as if him being in the UK mattered)

Oh crumbs.just about anything Theresa May,even if it is worth listening to in part is generally confusing,the woman is totally useless.

I don't in any way begrudge the PM a break but I do think this one is ill timed, whether he can get back quickly or not.
It is a time for the elected Leader of the country to be here, at least until after the funeral of this poor young Soldier.

I will have to pass as to the description of the PMs wife as 'nice' though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 6017976)

Oh crumbs.just about anything Theresa May,even if it is worth listening to in part is generally confusing,the woman is totally useless.

I don't in any way begrudge the PM a break but I do think this one is ill timed, whether he can get back quickly or not.
It is a time for the elected Leader of the country to be here, at least until after the funeral of this poor young Soldier.

I will have to pass as to the description of the PMs wife as 'nice' though.

You Would

Those Evil Extreme Muslims killed that Soldier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 6017982)

You Would

Those Evil Extreme Muslims killed that Soldier.

No one would or is arguing with that.
However with the situation as it is, the Soldiers family in a totally traumatic state, information coming out bit by bit, racial tensions increasing against the Muslim communities across the UK.

That's not the best time for the Prime Minister to leave the country for a 'holiday'.
If it was vitally important he returned when this happened only a few days ago then it is still,in my view, vital he is here now.If onlt to show respect and understanding to the family traumatised by this.

Even your paper 'The Sun' I noticed is getting at him for going, on its whole front page too I noticed as I went past the newstand this morning.

He not only looks out of touch, he is out of touch, Boris Johnson has been around more and said more too as to this than David Cameron.

Woolwich murder probe: suspect Michael Adebolajo held in Kenya in 2010

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22673164

Quote:

One of the suspects in the Woolwich murder case was arrested in Kenya in 2010, the Foreign Office has confirmed.

It said Michael Adebolajo was arrested there and it gave consular assistance "as normal" in the circumstances.

He was believed to have been preparing to fight with Somali militant group al-Shabab, a Kenyan government spokesman told the BBC, and was later deported.

The Kenyan government had previously denied that Mr Adebolajo had ever visited the country, but spokesman Muthui Kariuki said there had been some confusion as he was arrested under a different name.

Mr Adebolajo was arrested with five others and handed over to UK authorities when it emerged he was a British citizen, he added.

In video footage of his court appearance which emerged on Sunday, Mr Adebolajo is heard to say: "These people are mistreating us, we are innocent."

Oh yeah ..... :rolleyes:

"He not only looks out of touch, he is out of touch, Boris Johnson has been around more and said more too as to this than David Cameron. "

Yes so Boris should it went on under his London Area.

I do not agree he is out of touch.

It was New Labour that set up all the muslim sections
they were Out of Touch.
Blair caused the London Attack on 2005.
It we are still stuck in this Mess for a few years more

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 6018010)

Yes but Boris is only Mayor of London,having said that though, he has shown more conviction and actual sensitivity to this tragic and horrendous murder.
This Soldier's family however live further North, David Cameron is the elected PM of the whole UK.

Look, he can have his holiday for me,if he thinks it is right to do so but I really think to a good number of people he will be seen as being rather insensitive, thoughtless and out of touch by doing so.
When Margaret Thatcher died of natural causes, he was straight back to the UK and acting like he was the funeral director/stage manager for the whole event.

This tragedy for me, needed to see a good bit of solidarity with the traumatised family and I cannot see how he will be seen as showing that by rushing off for a holiday that could have been re-arranged or done at a later less tense time.

I won't even respond much to the Labour part of your post,except to say I totally disagree with the tone of it.
As you rightly first said, the people who murdered this Soldier were the evil people who did it,not one of our political parties.
I personally think as PM, David Cameron should have stayed in the Country and taken this break later that's all.

"When Margaret Thatcher died of natural causes, he was straight back to the UK"

You would Expect That , to be honest.

At this time we are on bank holiday
there is nothing for the PM to panic over

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 6018071)

"When Margaret Thatcher died of natural causes, he was straight back to the UK"

You would Expect That , to be honest.

At this time we are on bank holiday
there is nothing for the PM to panic over

You would expect him to be more concerned at a woman in her 80's dying safe in her bed, than a young man getting his head chopped off by terrorists in broad daylight?
Actually yeah, I would expect that too as it goes to show that he does not give a stuff about our young men dying, here or abroad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 6018071)

"When Margaret Thatcher died of natural causes, he was straight back to the UK"

You would Expect That , to be honest.

At this time we are on bank holiday
there is nothing for the PM to panic over

Far from it, I never saw any reason for him to leave duties and rush back at the time of Margaret Thatcher's death at all.
In fact I wholeheartedly echo Kizzy's post above.It speaks volumes about this PM and his attitude.

Terrorists don't take bank holidays,those who wish to cause more racial tensions won't care about bank holidays. he and you must hope there is nothing to panic about.
Maybe there isn't but as the leader of this Country he should be here to make sure he can respond instead of jetting off here, there and anywhere to not be in the Country.

If he doesn't like and/or cannot do the job of PM then go and let someone else who really cares take the duties of PM on.
Then David Cameron can move to Ibiza if he wishes.

I am sure the family of this murdered soldier would have loved the chance to be able to go off with their Soldier son and their other family on a holiday rather than have this nighmare they now have to live with.
Surely,for goodness sake, I am not in a minority that can see the insensitivity of the PM of the Nation for doing that at this time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 6018083)

Thats so wrong
He does not want any dead.
You keep making that up

"If he doesn't like "

Joey get off your Horse.
He is a PM on holiday
its not a Crime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 6018151)

"If he doesn't like "

Joey get off your Horse.
He is a PM on holiday
its not a Crime.

Arista,I am on no high horse, I think he is totally wrong to have gone on this break.
Just as you say he is right, I will stand my ground and condemn him for it, as for his nice wife, well I find it astonishing she didn't think it may look bad too.

I also think and apologies if I am wrong, that had this been Tony Blair or Gordon Brown or even Ed Miliband as PM at this time and they had gone off on a break now, I suspect you would have been likely throwing the book at them.

Another excellent piece from Russell Brand on these events:

Quote:

Woolwich

May 25th, 2013

The news cycle moves so quickly now that often we learn of an event through other people’s reaction to it. So it was when I arrived in Los Angeles to find my twitter feed contorted with posts of fear and confusion.

I caught up with the sad malice in Woolwich and felt compelled to tweet in casual defense of the Muslim community who were being haphazardly condemned by a few people on my time line. Perhaps a bit glibly (but what isn’t glib in 140 characters) I put “That bloke is a nut. A nut who happens to be Muslim. Blaming Muslims for this is like blaming Hitler’s moustache for the Holocaust”.

As an analogy it is imperfect but I was frightened by how negative and incendiary the mood felt and I rushed. I’m not proposing we sit around trying to summons up cute analogies when Lee Rigby has lost his life in horrific circumstances I simply feel that it is important that our reaction is measured. Something about the arbitrary brutality, the humdrum high-street setting, the cool rhetoric of the blood stained murderer evoke a powerful and inherently irrational response. When I first heard the word “beheading” I felt the atavistic grumble that we all feel. This is inhumane, taboo, not a result of passion but of malice, ritualistic. “If this is happening to guiltless men on our streets it could happen to me” I thought.

Then I watched the mobile phone clip. In spite of his dispassionate intoning the subject is not rational, of course he’s not rational, he’s just murdered a stranger in the street, he says, because of a book.

In my view that man is severely mentally ill and has found a convenient conduit for his insanity, in this case the Quran. In the case of another mentally ill and desperate man, Mark Chapman, it was A Catcher In The Rye. This was the nominated text for his rationalisation of the murder of John Lennon. I’ve read that book and I’ve read some of the Quran and nothing in either of them has compelled me to do violence. Perhaps this is because I lack the other necessary ingredients for extreme anti social behaviour; mental illness and isolation; either economic, social or both.

After my Hitler tweet I got involved in a bit of back and forth with a few people who said stuff like “the murderer said himself he did it for Islam”. Although I wouldn’t dismiss what he’s saying entirely I think he forfeited the right to have his views received unthinkingly when he murdered a stranger in the street. Someone else regarding my tweet said “Hitler’s moustache didn’t invent an ideology that sanctions murder”. That is thankfully true but Islam when practiced by normal people is not an advocacy for violence. “People all over the world are killing in the name of Islam” someone added. This is the most tricky bit to understand. What I think is that all over our country, all over our planet there are huge numbers of people who feel alienated and sometimes victimised by the privileged and the powerful, whether that’s rich people, powerful corporations or occupying nations. They feel that their interests are not being represented and, in many cases, know that their friends and families are being murdered by foreign soldiers. I suppose people like that may look to their indigenous theology for validation and to sanctify their, to some degree understandable, feelings of rage.

Comparable, I suppose to the way that homophobes feel a prejudicial pang in their tummies then look to the bible to see if there’s anything in there to justify it. There is, a piddling little bit in Leviticus. The main narrative thrust of The Bible though, like most spiritual texts, including the Quran is; be nice to each other because we’re all the same.

When some football fans smash up shops and beat each other up that isn’t because of football or football clubs. It’s because loads of white, working class men have been culturally neglected and their powerful tribal instincts end up getting sloshed about in riotous lager carnivals. I love football, I love West Ham, I’ve never been involved in football violence because I don’t feel that it’s my only access to social power. Also I’m not that hard and I’m worried I’d get my head kicked in down the New Den.

What the English Defence League and other angry, confused people are doing and advocating now, violence against mosques, Muslims, proliferation of hateful rhetoric is exactly what that poor, sick, murderous man, blood soaked on a peaceful street, was hoping for in his desperate, muddled mind.
The extremists on both sides have a shared agenda; cause division, distrust, anger and violence. Both sides have the same intention. We cannot allow them to distort our perception.

The establishment too is relatively happy when different groups of desperate people point the finger at each other because it prevents blame being correctly directed at them. Whenever we are looking for the solution to a problem we must identify who has power. By power I mean influence and money. The answer is not for us to move further from one another, crouched in opposing fortresses constructed from vindictive words. We need now to move closer to one another, to understand one another. If we can take anything heartening from this dreadful attack it is of course the actions of the three women, it’s always women, that boldly guarded Lee Rigby’s body as he lay needlessly murdered. These women looked beyond the fear and chaos and desperation and attuned instead to a higher code. One of virtue, integrity and strength.

To truly demonstrate defiance in the face of this sad violence, we must be loving and compassionate to one another. Let’s look beyond our superficial and fleeting differences. The murderers want angry patriots to desecrate mosques and perpetuate violence. How futile their actions seem if we instead leave flowers at each other’s places of worship. Let’s reach out in the spirit of love and humanity and connect to one another, perhaps we will then see what is really behind this conflict, this division, this hatred and make that our focus.

http://www.russellbrand.tv/2013/05/woolwich/

That is a very impressive article from him Jack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 6018147)

Thats so wrong
He does not want any dead.
You keep making that up

You couldn't make this stuff up arista, when we need our PM most when the country is thrown into calamity by an act of violent terrorism where is our illustrious leader.... Attending COBRA meetings? Travelling to barracks across the UK reassuring our troops?
No.... he is sunning himself, sipping cocktails!
This was a really ill timed break, it gives the wrong message to the nation, the troops and the dead soldiers family. It says ' I don't care'.

Kizzy
its not the End of Our Nation.

its a Holiday
loads of MP's are on Holiday.

Live on Ch4News now
talking about the Kenya Connection
that Omah posted

"He was believed to have been preparing to fight
with Somali militant group al-Shabab,
a Kenyan government spokesman told the BBC, and was later deported."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 6018159)

Another excellent piece from Russell Brand on these events:

http://www.russellbrand.tv/2013/05/woolwich/

I disagree, I think he is totally wrong in his perception that this man was 'poor' or 'mentally ill' or 'economically or socially isolated'.
He was indoctrinated by hate clerics.
However wordy Mr Brand is he has, for me anyway got the wrong idea here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 6018214)

Kizzy
its not the End of Our Nation.

its a Holiday
loads of MP's are on Holiday.

You can attempt to downplay this as much as you want, it won't stop the shockwaves as the Prime minister deserts his country at a hostile time.
He is not an MP, he is our head statesman, it is his duty to be here in times of uncertainty.

To murder someone (even more so when it's predetermined, and especially in such a brutal manner) I think you have to have some kind of mental illness or problem. No sane, rational thinking person can be so cold and heartless as to take another person's life. For most people, empathy kicks in and would stop that in its tracks.

Of course he was indoctrinated, but to actually do something of this magnitude requires you to not be totally wired up right above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 6018263)

We do not know the extent to which this man or others who have committed similar crimes have been influenced, via teachings both religious and political. Do I think it is possible to drive over time people to do these acts? yes I do.
That is why the new tack is to focus on the teaching of hate clerics, to enable anti terrorism police to identify why, how,where and who is at risk of becoming the next person to run rampage with a machete in the streets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 6018263)

I can take that on board, really good reasoning as much as it is possible to in this particular horrific tragedy.

I don't think a mental illness is prerequisite of being a murderer, you simply have to believe your actions are justified, hence why the whole of human history has in large part been shaped by wars and killings

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 6018781)

I don't think a mental illness is prerequisite of being a murder, you simply have to believe your actions are justified, hence why the whole of human history has in large part been shaped by wars and killings

True ..... :thumbs: