[QUOTE=the truth;7767489]


Really who saw it coming, I heard no one say it was coming,none of all the global financial institutions, the IMF the IFS our own Bank of England.
No one saw it coming and not in any way on the scale it did.
No one, no politicians,no economists, no so called worldwide experts.

This is a side issue however, you got at me saying I was all theory and no practice.I recall I asked you in response to that getting at me, to with substantiated official figures where and how many, people on zero hours contracts got better contracts and more hours with said employers.
You may have forgotten the original point and question I put after your comment as to me, I haven't, so there it is again for you.
You say it is so, surely you have official figures as to that you can enlighten us with..

Obviously not, any way I am off to bed now, goodnight.

They didn't save us from anything... they borrowed more in the last 5yrs than Labour in 13 remember?

'As a Conservative I have no pleasure in exposing David Cameron's deficit claims. However, as long as the party continues to talk down the economy via the blame game, confidence will not be given an opportunity to return. For it is an undeniable and inescapable economic fact: without confidence and certainty there can be no real growth.'

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" Joseph Goebbels

lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/rame...b_2007552.html

[QUOTE=joeysteele;7767529]are you actually kidding me? the housing bubble was out of control for years, values doubled in under a decade.....mortgages were totally out of control....kids just out of nappies were allowed to dish out tens of thousands to customers theyd spoken to for a few minutes....defaults were everywhere.....the economy had no balance at all....the uk was an enterprise zone....the us economy has bounced back stronger because despite the poorest homes being shacks, the economy has vastly more balance. they also came down on the banks heavier. that's something the tories like labour have failed to do......

loads saw it coming but you didn't even need to be a financial expert to see the casino was about to go bust...we fell harder than anyone and took longer to get out too....it was only our keeping the pound that allowed us to save ourselves......BUT that's not to say were out of it totally, we are not. the tories must use the growth to start to build a better balanced economy as the markets always collapse and the next time they do we cant be left as exposed as we were under new labour


A number of other individuals appear to have some justification for claiming to have predicted the crisis or critical aspects of it. Some are discussed in various books and I have listed a number of pre-crisis books here. In How to Profit from the Coming Real Estate Bust, John Rubino predicted "a deep recession" (although he predicted it for 2004) and he discussed many of the same issues highlighted by other predictors including the rise in home ownership rates, the growing debt, and Hyman Minsky's research. Other book authors that may have a claim (I haven't read them or seen independent research attributions of having predicted the "crisis") include the following.
•Bill Bonner and Addison Wiggin, authors of the best sellers Financial Reckoning Day: Surviving the Soft Depression of the 21st Century (2003) and Empire of Debt: The Rise of an Epic Financial Crisis (2005)
•Mike Stathis, author of America's Financial Apocalypse: How to Profit from the Next Great Depression (2006) and Cashing in on the Real Estate Bubble (2007)
•David Decker and George Sheldon, authors of Cash in on the Coming Real Estate Crash (2006)
•Clif Droke author of America's Housing Bubble: The Real Estate Outlook for 2006-2012 (2005)
•Harry Dent author of The Next Great Bubble Boom (2004)



1.Bill Ackman (EPw, Fortune, Who’s Holding the Bag? (May 2007), and Confidence Game)
2.Sheila Bair (Chrostowski, Nocera - see also Wash Post article)
3.Dean Baker (Bezemer, EP, RA3) - Baker Survey
4.Richard Baker (Fortune 2008 & 2003)
5.Roy Barnes (Hirsh)
6.Susan Bies (Chrostowski - 2006 FOMC Transcripts)
7.Rick Bookstaber (Salon, A Demon of Our Own Design 2007)
8.Claudio Borio (Tett, Economist, Bezemer*)
9.Brooksley Born (Frontline, EPw, Chrostowski)
10.Jesse Colombo (FT, Keen, Irrera) - Colombo Survey
11.Vox Day (Hannity) - Day Survey
12.Richard Duncan (Plumberg and The Dollar Crisis 2003)
13.Marc Faber (BW)
14.Fred Foldvary (Crane, Gaffney) - Foldvary Survey
15.Robert Gnaizda (NYTimes - hat tip EPw, Gnaizda is also interviewed in Inside Job)
16.Wynne Godley (9/2/1926 – 5/13/2010) (Bezemer, RA9, NYT)
17.James Grant (BW)
18.Jeremy Grantham (BW, Ody, WSJ)
19.Jeffrey Gundlach (Barrons)
20.Fred Harrison (Bezemer, The Chaos Makers 1997, Boom Bust 2005) - Harrison Survey
21.Kenneth Heebner (WSJ - "significant decline in prices is coming"...but..."won't by itself push the economy down")
22.Michael Hudson (Bezemer, RA8)
23.Eric Janszen (Bezemer, America's Bubble Economy 2006)
24.Med Jones (EP)
25.Steve Keen (Bezemer, EP, RA1) - Keen Survey
26.Mark Kiesel (Ody)
27.Paul Krugman (EP, RA7)
28.Sir Andrew Large (Hancock and Zahawi in Masters of Nothing - hat tip Steve Denning)
29.Nye Lavalle (Morgenson, Wikipedia) - Lavalle Survey
30.Jakob Madsen (Bezemer, EP, RA12) - Madsen Survey
31.Michael Panzner (BW, Financial Armageddon 2007)
32.Frank Partnoy (FT, NPR, FIASCO (1997), and Infectious Greed (2003))
33.Ron Paul (MinnPost, Rand Paul - "During congressional hearings in 2003, Ron Paul predicted the housing crisis and market crash")
34.Ann Pettifor (RA5, The Coming First World Debt Crisis 2006) - Pettifor Survey
35.Robert Prechter (EPw, BW, Conquer the Crash 2002)
36.Raghuram Rajan (Bezemer*, EPw)
37.Andrew Redleaf (NYT)
38.Kurt Richebächer (1918–August 24, 2007) (Bezemer, RA11)
39.Stephen Roach (BW)
40.Robert Rodriguez (& Tom Atteberry) (Ody, Fortune, WSJ, and The End of Wall Street) - Rodriguez Survey
41.David Rosenberg (BW)
42.Joshua Rosner (Coming Nightmare 2004, and Where Did the Risk Go? 2007)
43.Nouriel Roubini (Bezemer, EP, RA2, BW, Ody, Fortune)
44.John Rubino (How to Profit from the Coming Real Estate Bust 2003) - Rubino Survey
45.Peter Schiff (Bezemer, EP, BW, Ody, WSJ, Crash Proof 2007)
46.Robert Shiller (Bezemer, RA6, Ody, Irrational Exuberance 2, The One Who Saw It Coming)
47.Gary Shilling (BW)
48.Paul Singer (& Jim Chanos) (Bloomberg, Benner, and WSJ)
49.Jens Kjaer Sorensen (Bezemer - The Dynamics of House Prices - International Evidence - 2006)
50.George Soros (RA10)
51.Joseph Stiglitz (RA4, Hirsh)
52.John Talbott (Bezemer*, The Coming Crash in the Housing Market 2003, and Sell Now! 2006) - Talbott Survey
53.Nassim Taleb (EPw, BW, Triana, The Black Swan (4/17/2007))
54.Christopher Thornberg (LAT) - Thornberg Survey
55.David Tice (Ody)
56.Claus Vogt (Das Greenspan-Dossier in German)
57.William White (Tett, and Early Prediction of Worldwide Banking Crisis Ignored (7/8/2009))
58.Meredith Whitney (BW, Ody, The Big Short)

yah quoting a psycho nazi on 21st century economics is great....does that apply to new labours dodgy dossier and weapons of mas distraction too? or do you ignore that propaganda that killed a million innocents?.tell me what elvis presley said about renationalising the banks next

deficit has risen in the usa too under a democratic leader
unemployment has fallen greatly, gdp has risen, the tories have brought a better finances and their ideological push to get kids of benefits and into work will help the economy long term..........the question is how to keep improving the balance in the economy.....by 2020 with a decent proper centrist socialist leader the country may be ready for a labour leader to rebalance again but not now not yet.....new labour must first die.....we need civil liberties freedom of speech theyre our inalienable rights denied us by the fraud of new labour

Hey don't shoot the messenger... But that's exactly what happened isn't it? the tories spun a lie and like the gullible twonks we are we swallowed it.
And we're still swallowing it, it seems it's private enterprises divine right to make billions in profit whilst keeping outlay to the bare minimum regardless of the effect on the workforce, safety or the environment.
This will have to change, it's not sustainable.

no we swallowed new labour lies and they were infinitely worse this tory government and they did less than nothing about the inequality gap....of course everything will change , balance is key.....if the tories get as lazy complacent and drunk on power as new labour did after 5 years then we will be in trouble again

Ah well if you just was your own private retrospective and ignore the last 5yrs crack on, I'll bow out for the moment as you're not willing to acknowledge what's happening in the here and now.

ive acknowledged plenty you acknowledge nothing outside your own liberal agenda.....you don't even seem to understand the last 5 years was hugely a result of the previous 13 under your party

the truth schooling the blairites

:clap1:

I really admire your patience Kizzy.
You are however,in my opinion,completely wasting your time, no facts, no substantiation of official figures coming to you, all you get is attacked and no real answers to 'any' points with official facts.
Save your energy and typing for someone who has such facts to hand before they make wild statements from their own perspectives of hate or like for a particular party.

I am still waiting for the simplest of answers to a question that was asked ages ago,not a single thing forthcoming and I was told I was all theory and no practice.

All govts; get things wrong,we both know that, they will all make mistakes in power and poor decisions, they can however choose for themselves who they hit and when and how as to cuts.
That is the thing with you and I, and many others here too, we can see these are making the wrong choices and hitting cruelly the wrong people.

Wrong choices and wrong people being hit, that even if it were the labour party,or in fact any other party, hitting such people and doing that wrong to them.
You and I, for 2, would be as heated and angry with them as we are being now to the Conservative govt:
Therein lies the massive difference to how we debate.

It gives me no pleasure at all to have to, in the UK in the 21st century, attack any govt; for being discriminatory and heartless towards those in need and support,even moreso when they have other choices but still choose to do so deliberately.

Thanks :) I agree you can provide information, statistics, graphs, professional opinion but if some are hellbent on repeating the tory mantras without one scrap of supporting evidence bar a sun headline what can you do? :laugh:

Well this is the latest info on full time employment I can find: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/f...people-in-jobs

"Full-time jobs accounted for 95% of the rise in employment over the past year, with private sector employment rising by 637,000."

It's true that it's not all sunshine and rainbows. The biggest issue atm seems to be productivity, which Mark Carney is saying today has been worse than expected for the past seven years. It's also why they've revised down their growth expectation for the next few months. I think the thing with zero-hour contracts it not to ban them altogether but to tighten the rules and stop employers exploiting them, because they do have their place in any modern economy. Overall though the fact does remain that our economy is in pretty good shape; it's hardly booming but it is still growing, unemployment is still falling, inflation is lower than hoped but it's no cause for panic, and living standards are gradually expected to bounce back from hereon in. We might not get the good life that Cameron was promising but we should get reasonable stability, I just hope that the speed and depth of cuts that the Tories are planning don't threaten that but tbh I doubt a lot of their pledges on public spending will come to fruition anyway

Revised down is tory speak for we lied about productivity and growth to win an election.
Nobody has ever suggested 0hr contracts have no place, they have a specific place it's when you use them to reduce workers employment rights in certain sectors they become an issue.
People are considerably worse off so where the sense of optimism in the face of austerity is coming from I don't know.

It's the Bank of England who set the original growth forecast and they who have just revised it down, it's not the government.

The optimism comes from the fact that our economy is undeniably more stable now than it has been for a long time. The general consensus seems to be that that will be reflected in living standards soon: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d5e2997c-9...#axzz3a6LDaL9P

Whose living standards are expected to bounce back? Middle-class / middle income households and all those above I presume. On the back of a min-wage-slave workforce worked to the bone for peanuts whose "living standards" will continue to deteriorate, using filthy and disgraceful public transport, trying to live in filthy run down towns, and paying extortionate amounts for unstable rented accommodation that could be sold out from under them with as little as a few months notice. All seems great to me.

Doesn't look that stable to me.

Even as recently as the March Budget, the OBR made a forecast for growth and for tax revenues. Between the Budget and the autumn statement it revised the growth forecast up by a little bit, but revised income tax and national insurance substantially down because, owing to this year’s stagnating wages and cost of living crisis,

growth has not brought in the revenues that the Chancellor wanted. In comparison with the March Budget, we have actually lost £8.4 billion in this fiscal year, not because spending cuts have not gone ahead or tax cuts have not been delivered, but because the tax revenues have not come in as a result of growth and stagnant wages. Ultimately, the only way of reversing the problem is yes, to cut spending, and yes, to raise taxes—as the Chancellor has done in this Parliament—but also to get the economy growing in a stronger way which will bring in tax revenues. If he does not do that, the Chancellor will carry on failing year after year, as he has in this Parliament.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate...5-01-13b.738.0

'A Centre for Cities report at the end of last month noted that 80% of private sector job growth since 2010 was in London'

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate...4-02-11a.719.1

Exactly, the supposed "recovery" is little more than smoke and mirrors, more financial bloat and fudged figures.

If, in five years time, we find ourselves with a stronger economy that has really started to work for everyone... Real hope, real opportunity, an increased quality of life for everyone because we have a richer country (and not just for those at the top) then I will GLADLY eat my words. I don't WANT the government to fail to deliver these things, believe it or not I would much rather it be the case that I am completely wrong and everything will be fine.

But they haven't come close to delivering on their promises in the last 5 years and (were I a betting man) I would bet everything I own that they won't come close in the next five years either.

Well I also remember Osborne in his budget saying that employment was growing fastest in the north west and the midlands

Sure figures can be misleading, either side of the debate can point to numbers to back up their argument and contradict the other side mainly because, well, economics is complicated, and different economic measures can prove different things. One of the stupid things about this election campaign was how all parties left themselves no room for leeway and tied themselves into straight-jackets of their own making with a lot of their pledges. Its stupid to create a law to rule out tax rises or to make guarantees based on continued strong economic growth and not having a plan b. As Labour love to remind us, we are deeply affected by whatever will happen in the rest of the financial world. Fundamentally I do think we're in a fairly stable position though, and as long as the government is sensible in the next five years then the country as a whole will benefit from that

Well he was talking out of his anus then obviously, it's not fair to mislead the electorate but politicians do it to win votes.
I would be more inclined to believe figures presented in hansard than the sun though.
It's not the inequality in the rest of the world that is the issue it's the inequality within the UK that is becoming the focus of debate.
They can and have made promises of no tax rises, so who is paying tax...
How can 0hrs and de professionalisation lead to a stable economy?

and more good news today with the restrictions on unions

what a start for Dave and his crew :thumbs:

Links? if you mean the 40% ballot that's no big deal...

Well no, not obviously. If that figure is correct from the 'Centre for Cities' report it does not contradict Osborne's claim, who was saying that at the time of speaking it was the north-west which was witnessing the fastest growth in employment. Chancellor's don't just make things up. But I suppose a claim from a Labour MP = fact while a claim from a Tory MP = lie, forever and always.

Why are you talking about the Sun, who has mentioned figures of theirs? You are the only one to have mentioned that paper in this thread. I have cited a government report, a Financial Times survey and a budget speech of the chancellor. None of this credible enough?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...rike-laws.html

Tories to bring in tough anti-strike laws

Sajid Javid, the new business secretary, says that the Tories will push ahead with tough new anti-strike legislation in their first Queen's Speech

:clap1:

And where is Osbornes information from? You appear so suspicious of the 'Centre for Cities' report and yet take whatever the chancellor says as gospel that's why, I can't view the FT report I don't believe the government employment figures for a second.

There is reference to another FT report in the debate ( I quoted Plaids Johnathon Edwards not Labour earlier)

London

“is a giant suction machine draining the life out of the rest of the country.”

Yet the Government do precious little to rectify that. Only last month the Financial Times reported that the wealth gap between London and the nations and regions is set to widen. A professor at the London School of Economics has noted that London is the

“dark star of the economy, inexorably sucking in resources, people and energy.”

The north west may be having the fastest growth how that will benefit anyone at grass root level is debatable.



What are Hospital services?....

Well that's fair enough the last strike had 80 or 90% support didn't it?

About time.

Personally,I think Margaret Thatcher knew the score as to the Unions and she knew when enough was enough.
Having done her 'enough' she did no more.

This is just pure spite now and it is incredible the dictation of the percentages they want to be voting in industrial actions ballots, when this lot are in govt; with less than 37% of the votes from those who voted in the election and even worse,only around a quarter of the whole electorate who could have.

What hypocrisy.

Presumably Osborne is citing the official treasury figures, choose to disbelieve them if you wish. I am hardly taking his word as gospel, I have no interest in cheerleading one side or the other.

thefact new labour hate these figures show how fake they are they SAY they are the people who care but they ACT like the people who dont.