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-   -   Steven Avery case (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354678)

Glenn. 27-02-2019 08:04 PM

Cats are grotesque anyway

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasS (Post 10460403)
I haven't watched the netflix show but I read he doused a cat in gasoline, tortured it and burned it alive. Thats usually how many killers/physcos start, and so for that reason I think hes guilty. Someone capable of doing that is easily capable of murder.

Absolutely

Marsh. 27-02-2019 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn. (Post 10460411)
Cats are grotesque anyway

https://i.imgur.com/r46CBgob.png

Amy Jade 27-02-2019 08:19 PM

Even if you dislike cats he doused one in gas, tortured it (iirc declawed it and ripped its teeth out aswell as swinging it around by its tail) before setting it alite.

Anyone who can do that to an innocent, trusting animal is a scumbag.

Smithy 27-02-2019 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10460016)
Here's a good article for balance :hee:

http://thefederalist.com/2018/12/11/...uilty-as-hell/

Nah this is a really poor article, all he does is gloss over the evidence provided by Kathleen and giving generalization and tries to make it sound implausible.

Quote:

First off, viewers still have to accept that Halbach’s body was moved onto Avery’s property by members of the Manitowoc, Wisconsin police department, or someone else hoping to frame him, then burned in a firepit in front of his home—with other murder tools belonging to Avery—without anyone on the busy property noticing.
Kathleen said bone fragments were found in a third place - the Manitowoc gravel pit, the bones (or what was remaining) was then dumped on Avery’s property, a body wasn’t moved, just the remnants

Quote:

But the viewer is also asked to believe that police (or some steely nerved mastermind killer who, as far as we know, has never struck before or after) snuck into the Avery home, and not only planted the keys to Halbach’s car in his trailer but also planted Avery’s non-blood DNA onto those keys (as Zellner claims).
The police didn’t need to “sneak in” the key was found on the 3rd or 4th (can’t remember entirely) search of the property, and the original police officers who searched the property said the key was NOT there in the first place, there was also no other DNA on the key apart from Stevens, why wouldn’t there be a trace of Therese’s DNA on the key? Unless it had been scrubbed and the dna planted, DNA found on her car key included too many cells to be transferred by simply holding the key too

Quote:

She says someone also planted Avery’s non-blood DNA evidence on the inside latch of the trunk of Halbach’s car (and blood in half a dozen places elsewhere in the car) after dumping the car on the property without anyone noticing. All of it before the police showed up.
This one is actually quite funny, because when you watch the show they do an experiment to measure the amount of DNA on the hood latch by recreating someone touching a latch in similar fashion. So basically they do the experiment three times and measure the amount of DNA on the latch each time. In the lab the results showed that in order for the amount of DNA to have been transferred onto the hood latch Steven would have had touch it *90* times. Why/how would that be possible?

Quote:

This means that that cops, or another murderer, got their hands on a rifle that hung over Avery’s bed, fired it without any of the family’s knowledge, shot a woman in the garage without anyone’s knowledge (or maybe they transported Avery’s gun somewhere else and shot her), then also planted the forensic evidence without anyone’s knowledge. All before the police showed up.
This just doesn’t make sense in terms of his argument, he’s saying it’s ridiculous that the body was moved, but if she was shot/killed in his garage why is there no blood splatter or DNA in the garage to back it up?


BASICALLY niamh, everything in that article is a load of ****e :hee:

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Jade (Post 10460444)
Even if you dislike cats he doused one in gas, tortured it (iirc declawed it and ripped its teeth out aswell as swinging it around by its tail) before setting it alite.

Anyone who can do that to an innocent, trusting animal is a scumbag.

Not to mention when he was jailed for that rape part of his sentence was also for running a woman off the road in his car and pulling a gun on her with her child in the back seat

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smithy (Post 10460447)
Nah this is a really poor article, all he does is gloss over the evidence provided by Kathleen and giving generalization and tries to make it sound implausible.







Kathleen said bone fragments were found in a third place - the Manitowoc gravel pit, the bones (or what was remaining) was then dumped on Avery’s property, a body wasn’t moved, just the remnants







The police didn’t need to “sneak in” the key was found on the 3rd or 4th (can’t remember entirely) search of the property, and the original police officers who searched the property said the key was NOT there in the first place, there was also no other DNA on the key apart from Stevens, why wouldn’t there be a trace of Therese’s DNA on the key? Unless it had been scrubbed and the dna planted, DNA found on her car key included too many cells to be transferred by simply holding the key too







This one is actually quite funny, because when you watch the show they do an experiment to measure the amount of DNA on the hood latch by recreating someone touching a latch in similar fashion. So basically they do the experiment three times and measure the amount of DNA on the latch each time. In the lab the results showed that in order for the amount of DNA to have been transferred onto the hood latch Steven would have had touch it *90* times. Why/how would that be possible?







This just doesn’t make sense in terms of his argument, he’s saying it’s ridiculous that the body was moved, but if she was shot/killed in his garage why is there no blood splatter or DNA in the garage to back it up?





BASICALLY niamh, everything in that article is a load of ****e :hee:

He also cleaned his really messy **** heap of a garage with bleach just recently

MTVN 27-02-2019 08:25 PM

Just cos someone is a bad person and did lots of bad things doesn't mean they can't be innocent of this one particular bad thing, it's a big part of the huge flaw in the way that this was investigated that assumptions were made based on Averys character and conclusions were pre-empted..

Smithy 27-02-2019 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10460456)
He also cleaned his really messy **** heap of a garage with bleach just recently

Can’t have done it that well if he didn’t get rid of the bullets :idc:

Either way, there would have still been blood on the walls/ceiling if she was shot in there, he wouldn’t have been able to remove all traces

Smithy 27-02-2019 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 10460458)
Just cos someone is a bad person and did lots of bad things doesn't mean they can't be innocent of this one particular bad thing, it's a big part of the huge flaw in the way that this was investigated that assumptions were made based on Averys character and conclusions were pre-empted..

MTE, he clearly is quite messed up, especially with the cat thing, but I don’t believe he killed Theresa

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:27 PM

And let's be honest Smithy you were always going to say it was a **** article, your mind is closed on this one

Marsh. 27-02-2019 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10460456)
He also cleaned his really messy **** heap of a garage with bleach just recently

:eek: Omg, he's on day release?

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 10460458)
Just cos someone is a bad person and did lots of bad things doesn't mean they can't be innocent of this one particular bad thing, it's a big part of the huge flaw in the way that this was investigated that assumptions were made based on Averys character and conclusions were pre-empted..

There's so much evidence though, both physical and circumstantial

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 10460464)
:eek: Omg, he's on day release?

[emoji1787] recently in relation to the murder

Smithy 27-02-2019 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10460463)
And let's be honest Smithy you were always going to say it was a **** article, your mind is closed on this one

But reading the article the writer is already bias by implying that the evidence given is nonsensical, he over exaggerates everything as if it’s impossible, whereas when you see the evidence in front of you, it’s clearly not.

And you may say that the show is bias, but the officers involved didn’t want to comment on the case and Kathleen deconstructs their case in an efficient manner.

I read it with an open mind but everything he said has already been proved or validated with scientific testing, that’s not being closed minded

Glenn. 27-02-2019 08:33 PM

The experiments they did in Series 2 pretty much confirmed that the prosecutions side of events didn’t actually happen. It can’t have. The hood latch, the blood in her car and I can’t remember what but there was something with the bullet found in the garage. There was like a million bullet holes in the wood or something.

Marsh. 27-02-2019 08:35 PM

The blood spatter experiments were a howl. :joker:

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smithy (Post 10460474)
But reading the article the writer is already bias by implying that the evidence given is nonsensical, he over exaggerates everything as if it’s impossible, whereas when you see the evidence in front of you, it’s clearly not.



And you may say that the show is bias, but the officers involved didn’t want to comment on the case and Kathleen deconstructs their case in an efficient manner.



I read it with an open mind but everything he said has already been proved or validated with scientific testing, that’s not being closed minded

I wouldn't have wanted to go on that show either if I wasn't saying Steve was innocent, they're only interested in one side

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn. (Post 10460484)
The experiments they did in Series 2 pretty much confirmed that the prosecutions side of events didn’t actually happen. It can’t have. The hood latch, the blood in her car and I can’t remember what but there was something with the bullet found in the garage. There was like a million bullet holes in the wood or something.

All one sided and theories. Blood splatter tests can be made to look however you want them to. .

Alf 27-02-2019 08:42 PM

Niamh, do you not think it's possible that it was Brendan's step-father and brother that did it? and that the police planted it on Avery because not only had he embarrassed them, but he was due to profit big time off them?


I can't understand how someone who was going to receive the financial gain he was, doing something like this.

Smithy 27-02-2019 08:42 PM

Niamh I’m not sure how you can say people are closed minded when there is scientific evidence to back up the defense but I haven’t really seen anything credible that hasn’t already been explained through various testing

Josy 27-02-2019 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 10460458)
Just cos someone is a bad person and did lots of bad things doesn't mean they can't be innocent of this one particular bad thing, it's a big part of the huge flaw in the way that this was investigated that assumptions were made based on Averys character and conclusions were pre-empted..

Exactly this.

Regardless of opinions towards Steven Avery, the whole thing stinks of complete corruption from start to finish and there was no way that the jury would have truly have found him guilty beyond reasonable doubt if evidence hadn't been tampered with and so on, at the very least he is entitled to a new trial.

Josy 27-02-2019 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10459967)
I watched the first series then did a load of reading up afterwards and I think he definitely did it. I started watching the second but I found it so biased It annoyed me. Peter Hyatt did a good statement analysis on him. Also, I wouldn't say "poor" him anything he's done some horrible **** besides that (that were very glossed over in the documentary. Brendan dassey also told his mother in a recorded phone conversation that Steve sexually abused him

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.c...entencing.html

You really missed a lot not watching the second season, some of the criminal testing Kathleen carried out was truly eye opening and then the stuff that came out about Bobby was actually sickening :eek:

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 10460502)
Niamh, do you not think it's possible that it was Brendan's step-father and brother that did it? and that the police planted it on Avery because not only had he embarrassed them, but he was due to profit big time off them?


I can't understand how someone who was going to receive the financial gain he was, doing something like this.

I don't think a violent murderer would not be a violent murder just because he was going to get money

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josy (Post 10460514)
You really missed a lot not watching the second season, some of the criminal testing Kathleen carried out was truly eye opening and then the stuff that came out about Bobby was actually sickening :eek:

The whole family seem.like weirdos tbf

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smithy (Post 10460503)
Niamh I’m not sure how you can say people are closed minded when there is scientific evidence to back up the defense but I haven’t really seen anything credible that hasn’t already been explained through various testing

There's scientific evidence to back up the prosecution though, it's why he's in jail now. That it was planted is a theory, a defence

Josy 27-02-2019 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10460518)
The whole family seem.like weirdos tbf

The proof of what was recovered from bobby's computer makes him a lot worse than a weirdo.

I still genuinely don't get how the prosecution can describe exactly how she was murdered when they never even had a body or any remains worth examining :think:

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 10460502)
Niamh, do you not think it's possible that it was Brendan's step-father and brother that did it? and that the police planted it on Avery because not only had he embarrassed them, but he was due to profit big time off them?


I can't understand how someone who was going to receive the financial gain he was, doing something like this.

Regarding the step dad and brother, they definitely seem shady but so does Steve and he was the one who specifically requested Teresa come that day and who Teresa had said scared her

Josy 27-02-2019 08:55 PM

On a side note, watching Kathleen and her teams testing etc on this case peaked my interest so I read up and watched other cases she had worked on, she is really amazing at what she does

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josy (Post 10460524)
The proof of what was recovered from bobby's computer makes him a lot worse than a weirdo.



I still genuinely don't get how the prosecution can describe exactly how she was murdered when they never even had a body or any remains worth examining :think:

They had shells from Steve's gun with her DNA on it

Niamh. 27-02-2019 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josy (Post 10460528)
On a side note, watching Kathleen and her teams testing etc on this case peaked my interest so I read up and watched other cases she had worked on, she is really amazing at what she does

Have you watched the Staircase Josy? That's an interesting one

Josy 27-02-2019 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10460531)
They had shells from Steve's gun with her DNA on it

Tests in the second season refuted that iirc

Smithy 27-02-2019 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10460531)
They had shells from Steve's gun with her DNA on it

No they didn’t

Josy 27-02-2019 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10460535)
Have you watched the Staircase Josy? That's an interesting one

Yeah I did, I changed my mind about what happened so many times watching that :laugh:

Alf 27-02-2019 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10460516)
I don't think a violent murderer would not be a violent murder just because he was going to get money

Taking away the cat story, he hadn't been a violent murderer of humans before this. He'd just got his freedom having been locked up for 15 years for something he didn't do, and he was going to gain financially in a big way.

I'm not saying it's not possible that he did it despite that, just that it doesn't seem logical, from a normal point of view.

Niamh. 27-02-2019 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josy (Post 10460536)
Tests in the second season refuted that iirc

Hhhmm so the defence say

Niamh. 27-02-2019 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 10460545)
Taking away the cat story, he hadn't been a violent murderer of humans before this. He'd just got his freedom having been locked up for something he didn't do, and he was going to gain financially in a big way.



I'm not saying it's not possible that he did it despite that, just that it doesn't seem logical, from a normal point of view.

You aren't exactly dealing with normal people though

Niamh. 27-02-2019 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josy (Post 10460541)
Yeah I did, I changed my mind about what happened so many times watching that [emoji23]

Same, it was a very unbiased documentary though that one.

Niamh. 27-02-2019 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smithy (Post 10460538)
No they didn’t

They did

Smithy 27-02-2019 09:05 PM

I think you should watch S2 of MaM niamh just to see the scientific evidence which Kathleen pus forward


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