Racism works both ways.You can't say it's one rule for one and not for another.

..hmm, ok I understand what you're both saying and this is the main reason why I wanted to make the thread, to get other people's opinions because I don't know an awful lot about him other than that one comment which was indeed disgusting but for me made worse by the fact that he didn't appear to be sorry about it when I saw him on Wife Swap...I do see that the balance of positive things he did should define him as well though and I understand more what they were and maybe prejudices he himself faced for his decisions..thank you for your intelligent opinions...

I didn't say it wasn't racist.

Course it wouldn't insult me, I am not a woman.


So what your saying is I have to live in a country where I am in a minority to be a victim of racism?

I'm getting the feeling here Dana and I don't mean to jump the gun so I apologise in advance but me being a white, heterosexual male adult aged 24 means that I am excluded from being offended by anything?

Being called "white trash" by a posh black person might offend you?

It all depends on context... the reference to your racial characteristics could, arguably, add to the offence?

You can and presumably are offended by whatever you find offensive.

I was resonding to this:

I was suggesting that there is a good reason as to why you were 'far from offended' and why it was 'the most hilarious thing' you ever heard.

I would suggest the lesson from that is not that asians should be less offended by racism (after all it didn't offend you!) but rather that racism is experienced differently when you are part of a minority race in a country that has been (and some would argue still is) both culturally and systemically prejudiced against your race.

Fair enough.

I respect your opinion and I believe we want the same goal however we branch off a little in the application.

It's the last I will say on the subject except I have enjoyed the debate it has been good.

See you around the forum. :spin:

Nope. I'm saying what offends you is likely to be different to what offends someone with a different experience of life.

But to go back to the OP: I don't think it's the be all and end all of someone if they have racist views, or have acted in a racist way. Not saying it doesn't colour (:p) my opinion of them, but people are complex and people can and do change their views in life.

I am not much drawn to him though...regardless of this issue. He just doesn't interest me particularly as a person. But we'll see how it goes. maybe he'll turn out to be funny and warm...

I have a feeling Ron is still trying to alter public perception of him. His appearance on Celebrity Wife Swap didn't work well with him in denial basically.

I didn't see the WifeSwap. I might see if I can find a clip on Youtube.

Oh I don't doubt it. This stuiff is almost always contextual.

It was a black woman he was paired with, as I recall.

Ouch. Didn't go very well then?



I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say i don't expect he has very modern views on women either?

I don't like him

I think it was Tessa Sanderson who he was paired with on Wife Swap.

The man is a moron.

My great grandma used to have a black dog called n***a,that just wouldn't be allowed now

As I vaguely recall Ron's takes the "woman's place is in the kitchen" line on gender roles! :D

What makes me laugh though, are fans of Ron's judge Courtney, an 18 year old girl :laugh2:

Yeah. I thought that might be the case :p

Oh Dear, Imagine shouting that in the park :shocked:

..yeah, that was a big part of it for me as well that he didn't seem to be particularly bothered and refused to talk about it with Tessa..it was his wife who listened to what Tessa's partner had to say and then explained it to Ron, he seemed to realise a little more but I wasn't even convinced that he did completely...he just seemed to be really closed and blinkered in his views and wouldn't even listen to anyone else...

..yeah, I do agree about Courtney..she's being judged because she married a much older guy..?...that doesn't make any sense to me either...

..I've just had a look for you and I can't find it on Youtube, Dana but I'm sure you'll be able to watch it somewhere online....

No, I don't think he is racist.

He made a racist comment and meant it to offend. We have to acknowledge the difference in era and maybe it was an unfortunate slip.

I don't think he views other races as lesser. As others have said, he probably just holds archaic, stereotypical views.

Like Jackson did with Jade Goody ? but ALL accepted ,but Jade got hounded for her"racism"

BIG Ron has done more to promote black players in The English Game than anyone, you ask any of the players of colour who played under him and they'll all defend him and tell you that he is no racist.

We've all said silly things that we later regretted. He's managed black players in his managerial career.

Jade was clearly racist, what is wrong with you??????

I think it,s just the way things are for his generation. Can we all sit here and say my dad ain't ever said anything like that before..do we love our dads? Of course we do. Unconditionally.

What we have to remember is big Ron is the man that introduced Gareth crooks and Laurie Cunningham to big time football, so I,d say his comments were more ignorant than racist..

One racist comment doesn't make you a complete bigot in my opinion....But I don't really know the full story tbh.

Please add IMO as it is not my opinion,was Jackson racist in your opinion ?

I like Ron Atkinson, he is an absolute legend to one of my older Brothers as a football manager.
As to the racist issue. I am against prejudice of any kind and I have pulled even some casual friends up on what I felt may be deemed just bordering on racist comments.

However, unless they were clearly racist and I have come across people who are,I am not going to hold one or even a few comments against them all through life and not be able to see the other good sides to them too.
If they persisted in inappropriate comments then I would then cut them off because I wouldn't want to be associated with them because of that.

I don't however see Ron as a racist,he made a silly comment and has been got at ever since,however his actions do not follow a racist path in my view.
People who are really racist,in the main, cannot hide it and they certainly afford no merits or hand recognition to black people,or indeed other races either.
Over his long and varied football career,Ron has not only selected black players for his teams,he has nurtured them too, suppporting them and opening the door to successful careers for them.
That is not the actions of a racist, when they have authority and power over others lives and livelihoods.

Some people however, don't climb down easily, there are times it has almost been like pulling someones teeth out, just to get them to admit they made a mistake or that they were sorry.
I think that could be a problem with Ron, he doesn't back down easily,that may well be a flaw to his character but does not in any way substantiate any racist allegations against him.

I don't see him winning CBB, he may be the first out even but I like him and hope he is in for a fair while.
I don't really consider it fair to brand him a racist though when in fact there have never been any official allegations of racist activity from or by him and although throwaway comments can be offensive,they in themself do not constitute someone is racist either.

To my knowledge,he has not said anything further from that incident that could be considered racist as a comment, so I see nothing from his 'actions' that even indicate he may even be,let alone is.

I think he has a massive chance of winning,.hes a lovely man

..that's a good post Joey..I do agree with a lot of it although I don't think what he said could be described as a silly comment at all, it was an absolute racist comment and not in another 'era' either..but I also believe that he has done many positive things for different races in football and that can't be ignored either, one racist comment doesn't define him because of everything positive he is or has been in his career....he hasn't to my knowledge either said anything similar to that again...I'm not a huge fan myself, but because he doesn't really stand for much I admire in a person..but I don't think he's a racist either...

great post, completely agree

*

It's all about context. The N- word has become a very taboo word these days but it was not always the case years ago.

For example in the 'Dambusters' film there is a black dog called "N-". ! Sounds insane by today's standards but loads of people back then used to call their black dogs "N-", just as they would call a spotted dog "spotty". If it was a genuinely offensive word back then, then no one would use it to name their pet! Think about it. It would be like calling your cat 'wan*er*' now! It just wouldn't happen!

Back then, "N-" was simply a play on the word negro (meaning black), just as the word "spotty" was a play on the word "spotted"

N- didn't begin as a racist word but it became one over time.

Just like the word Gay used to only mean happy but then evolved to mean homosexual.
Listening to old songs, people sing of feeling 'happy and gay' and it sounds hilariously inappropriate by the standard of today's new meaning of the word gay. So if someone recorded a song called " I feel gay " in 1941, it would simply mean " I feel happy ". If they recorded it now in 2013 it would mean to everyone " I feel homosexual "

The N-word years ago didn't have a racist intent behind it, it was just a slang term for negro, just like brit is for british or aussie is for australian. Over time, the N- word came to be used in a negative way by negative people and so now it has become " a racist word " and so it is a word to be avoided.

Aussie and Brit have not become "racist words" but who knows in 30 years time they might be too !

Ron - being of the older generation - is used to the old way of saying N-, which was simply the equivalent of saying Brit for british.

Ron's mistake - i think - is in slipping up and not realising how racist and taboo the N- has become in this day and age. I don't think his use of the N- word came from hatred, but simply came from not keeping up with the times and how words evolve. Of course in a commentary job he should be more mindful of that.

But we should also be more mindful of Ron's generation and understand how different words had different meanings then to now. We should therefore expect the odd slip up from that generation and as long as there is no malicious intent in using it, best just to let it go. It's all about the evolution of words.

Same for swearing - did you know the C- word simply used to mean cut? This is where the name of the county Kent comes from. Literally a "cut in the land" which created the river thames. Kent, Cut and ******* - all from the same root years ago - but look at the difference now.

Maybe we should ban the word Kent. Maybe we should all never talk at all, just to play it safe.

Don't think that's where Kent comes from. Has a different root I think, meaning 'coastal' iirc.