Johnny was fired from jobs off the back of Ambers first statement, if she no longer works it’s because she showed herself to be a violent manipulator who tried to ruin someone’s career all to garner sympathy and cover for herself, would you feel comfortable working with someone proven to be so devious?

Well no because in my view they are both abusive, I'd rather see neither of them again tbqh

The judge also mentions messages sent by Depp

Not really an experiment given he's at the tail end of a decades long major career and she's virtually a nobody who tried to use this situation as her big break.

Not that it has made a difference to the Man = abuser woman = victim narrative in the papers. Nor did it allow him to keep one of his biggest roles in one of the biggest movie franchises ever.

I believe that's a temporary outcome, I'm not psychic by any means but we'll see

I've no love for Johnny Depp, in fact I fully believed everything Amber Heard said about him. I always believe the victims but those tapes... Victims don't gloat about how the world won't believe their supposed abusers, that is abuser talk. That, coupled with the other stories that came out (and most horrifically, her appropriating her assistant's rape story), just screams emotional and mental abuse. It's something I know a lot about, how abusers like that will bend the narrative to make them the victim, how they keep people under their control.

I just can't see Amber Heard as the victim, here.

It's not that I see her as the victim, it's that I don't think Johnny is the victim either. Their relationship seemed very very toxic

I mean, there are full and quite detailed recordings of conversations between them where Amber Heard in her own words admits to several acts of domestic violence. I'm not sure that I need a court to rule on that above and beyond hearing it directly from her. As I've said before though, a lot of people take those recordings as proof of Depp being 100% the victim and Heard being "the evil abuser" when if you actually listen with an unbiased ear to the recordings it's pretty clear that violence was a heavy feature of an unhealthy relationship all round from the start. As I also said there are elements of substance abuse wrapped up in there, too, and frankly mutual violence and manipulation is a common feature in such relationships. The narrative that Depp was just on the receiving end never really rang true.

I also agree with this, though... the outcome of a civil case (and in this case, not even a civil case involving the accuser, but against a newspaper) should never be taken as a legal indication/vindication. It is what it is and the burden of proof is completely different to a criminal trial.

I see it the same but sort of different in mutual domestic abuse cases - both of them are victims and both of them are abusers. The circumstances and mindsets that lead people into these sorts of relationships is usually pretty tragic and I don't think being an abuser negates someone also being a victim. I think the two of them have made a HUGE mess.

well he has a third Fantastic Beasts movie upcoming for 2021


and maybe also for distraction from all this he could also make more music with that group he's in Hollywood Vampires (something i didn't know before i looked up but apparently he is in a band with Alice Cooper, Joe Perry)

Yes I guess so. I feel like maybe in Depps case that he doesn't mix well with the partying lifestyle and alcohol/drugs in general and maybe that's why he had a calmer relationship with Vanessa Paradis and Winona Ryder but an "allegedly" more fiery relationship with Kate Moss - I know the actual abuse allegations are just accusations so I'm not even talking about that but there were reports back then of him thrashing hotel rooms and having verbally aggressive arguments with Kate, I think being with Kate was much more on the party scene as well.

Actually just to add when I say the victim, I meant that there wasn't The Victim and The abuser, if you know what i mean?

Kate Moss is pretty well known to have had a (rather heavy) cocaine problem and cocaine has been mentioned several times in relation to Heard and Depp... it seems likely he was down a cocaine rabbit hole in both relationships. Not that substance abuse is an excuse - but I think it is a likely explanation for why some exes have said there was never any abuse and other relationships have had this shadow of being abusive.

Oh yes it's absolutely not an excuse but a possible reason why there are different versions of Depp in relationships

Both sides'ing the issue doesn't feel right though. We know Depp struggling with substance abuse, we know Amber Heard as a manipulator. We also know that Johnny Depp wanted to change and improve the nature of their relationship and Amber Heard did not. My guess is that she found it easier to get into his head when he was high and/or drunk.

They both did wrong, but I just can't say the blame is equal.

Do we really know all that though? We have snippets of a look into their lives from a few recordings and what they chose to say themselves. I would say they are both to blame

Snippets can be revealing though, especially when we do know the context.

I think we've arrived at a stalemate on this one :laugh:

I get a really bad feeling about where this is all headed tbqh. Which is a damn shame.

Where is it headed do you think?

Suicide. :/

Oh. I hope that's not the case

In what world though are the options always (or, really, EVER) 100% one, 100% the other, or square in the middle? I agree that Amber Heard seems like a nightmare, she may well have been the "worse" of the two in the relationship, but his actions are still his own.

...that would obviously be awful, just such a tragic thing...:sad:..

Hmm. But I feel like this edges a little close to "suicide as threat". Obviously not exactly the same thing because as far as we know :suspect: you're not Johnny Depp... but I feel like it's in the same general semantic area as ["You can't do X, Y, Z or I'll kill myself!"] which is itself a well established emotional abuse/manipulation tactic. No one is ever "responsible" for another person's decision to take their own life.

What?

I literally said I get a bad feeling about where his mess of a life is headed. I haven't blamed anyone for anything that hasn't happened. Try again.

No ta :hee:

I'm not saying he is 100% innocent, never have but it's clear that she holds more of the blame as the main abuser here. He shouldn't have lashed out, but I can't call him an abuser for doing so if he was being abused himself, which is fairly evident he was. I wouldn't call a woman in his position an abuser so it would be hypocritical of me to make out that he's as much of an abuser as she is.

Coercive and mental abuse is a terrible thing and Amber Heard is a whole bunch of red flags in that regard, with everything we know now. It doesn't make his actions right, it never will, but people who are abused can snap.

Even after the verdict you're still creating your own narrative.
We've heard him ranting at here in covert footage, why would an abuser do that? Heard testimony from friends of hers that that was not an isolated incident and they had experienced these outbursts too.
That to me does not suggest it was some downtrodden partner snapping..

There may be other factors we are not aware of that prevent details of past relationships coming to light, prenuptial agreements or gagging orders, which to me are a form of coercive control in themselves.

I'm not creating anything, you simply have an incorrect assumption of what the outcome of this case means.

Very little would overcome Amber Heard appropriating rape stories to make herself look like a victim and basically goading Johnny Depp by telling him no one would believe him on tape. Neither are the actions of victims. The fact that we know that Depp tried to remedy the situation while Heard tried to keep things as they were is another strike against her.

Would you be defending Amber Heard's action if she was a man that had lied about being raped? That had told a woman that no one would believe her if she went public with what he had done? I don't think so. The difference is my opinion would remain the same regardless.

I don't really disagree with any of what you're saying but I just think it's SUCH a messy situation, and they both very clearly have such significant personal demons, that it's pretty much impossible to pass any sort of moral judgement on the situation. I doubt we know even a fraction of the story, even when it comes to the circumstances of the recording.

Again I just feel quite sad for both of them because whether it's sad-looking Depp or grinning and smug looking Heard in the tabloid pictures, all I can see is two very unhappy individuals who were in a toxic mess of a relationship. I'm not trying to excuse either of them or make out that they're equal, just that it's so messy that there's little point trying to unravel it.

That probably applies to every personal relationship of course, but I think this one is especially murky, with the back-and-forth and the fact that they were blatantly both high as kites on coke while most of this was going on.

...o have to say that I haven’t watched anything../...read anything regarding their relationship...other than vague things on here that were skim read when the trial was happening....but even if there are vids etc...they can be edited and manipulated, so we don’t know any context to the relationship at all...?...which is why I’m reluctant to comment, other than on the court ruling with the law suit and the at least 12 abuses proven truth...

:hmph:

Nope, she definitely would not.

Dezzy and Marsh being closet MGTOW. 2020 is the year that keeps on giving. This is up there with the time we found out that Kizzy is actually a PickMe agent of the patriarchy... Who knows what she's up to in this thread :suspect:.

:skull:

Sis, don't. I hate MRAs :laugh:

...I guess that this is things that people were already aware of but I’ll post the link anyway for anyone who might want to read as it’s the incidents said in court so obviously relevant...it definitely seems to have been a very complicated and layered relationship with a huge amount of toxicity of being each other’s Kryptonite...of all of the gin joints in the world, they should have never walked into each other’s... although it’s never really clear exactly what each ‘incident’ was, they both seem to concur that there was an incident as early as their honeymoon...it’s hard to believe that there wouldn’t have been things before though...that it wasn’t ‘suddenly on the honeymoon, out of the blue...’...and they’re not claiming that to be the case anyway, either...that the ‘honeymoon incident’ was in some way a shock/revelation for either...I think that in truth with the alcohol/substance abuse/medication etc involved with these ‘incidents’...neither can really say..’this is what happened/how it was...’....because that clarity just wouldn’t be there for either of them...although I do feel that there was some clarity there for both of them as well, possibly....and I also don’t necessarily believe ‘lies/manipulation/twisting’ etc from either of them with the incidents containing abuse, I do think that it’s more that their ‘truth’ just isn’t the same obviously, they’re recalling differently some very drug/alcohol added, very charged with emotion and sometimes, violence, specific incidents....but both feeling that they’re relating ‘truth’....for something not to be truth, doesn’t necessarily indicate a ‘liar’ or a manipulator etc...

...anyways, the article...

https://news.sky.com/story/johnny-de...trial-12037339

What presumption have I placed on the meaning of the outcome of the case?...
She was not on trial was she? Whatever anyone thinks of her it has no baring on the outcome of the case here.

I find it interesting that these 'strikes' are only against her and the findings of the case in her favour is not seen as a strike for Depp. .. He is still seen as the victim by you.

The assumption that this case's outcome clears Heard and places all the blame on Depp, which is evidenced by you branding any criticism of Heard as 'mysoginistic trolling'.

It doesn't matter if she was on trial or not, I've always referred to the evidence we know of, her own recorded words and the fact she's twisted enough to co-opt someone else's trauma for her own use, as well as the fact that it was Depp that reached out for help, not her.

Evidence is evidence, Kizzy, and to me it screams wanton emotional, mental and coercive abuse. You keep trying to make this about gender but the truth is my opinion would remain the same if the genders were flipped. Hell, I'm typically far more supporting of women then I am men which is why, when this story first came about, I was completely supportive of Heard and I believed her without question.

I don't think Johnny Depp is innocent, but I think if anyone is a victim of abuse and they lash out, it's not right, but it's understandable. As I said before, I wouldn't condemn a woman for doing the same so I can't condemn a man if that's the case because that would be hypocrisy.