I'm against parrot fashion teaching and reciting artificial psychiatric books (aka the DSM). I'm also against stereotyping and hysterics.

ECT isn't a conspiracy against women. It's used more for depression than any other illness and 2/3 of people with non-bipolar depression are women by chance just like 2/3 of people with schizophrenia just happen to be male. Some illnesses are just more common in particular demographics by chance. That doesn't tell anything about preferential treatment or discrimination based on gender or age.

Why were the huge majority of the ECT patients white kiz? Why so few Jamaicans? Is that evidence of systemic racism or does preferential discrimination only work when your particular demographic's included?

And 12 treatments is the standard needed for it to work though isn't it kizzy. Someone nearer the top of this thread voiced an issue with ECT wearing off if it isn't done enough times and that's why every ECT patient needs at least 12 of them. It's for maintenance as well as acute treatment.

Some of the ECT patients who couldn't give their consent would've been either floridly psychotic or literally at death's door. There's such a thing as temporary mental incapacity however non-PC it sounds to you. And most people who got the treatment benefited a lot from it as I see it. A whole 90% improved or are you willing to overlook that just to make ECT sound like a barbaric practice?

Either make a full argument or humble yourself and learn.

Really...effective science is not applied because of my attitude?..... That is ridiculous you do realise that?

Mild depression can be seizured away, leaving you forgetful. That's the advice?

My 'general public' stylee input although in the world of invasive treatment is worth nada is this...

And adverse results can happen with any medical procedure unfortunately. Unless you've got solid proof that ECT causes more damage than any other practice you're just adding to the stigma.

i scored 20

Yup. All because of attitudes like yours. You could always learn about how it's a life-saving practice but you wouldn't get as much as a reaction as you would by being controversial on any thread to do with weed or mental health like you always do. I don't know about you but I'd rather have temporary amnesia than turn into a living skeleton from the deeper grades of psychotic depression. And unlike all your posts in here that's not hysterics but actual fact. ECT's been known to virtually resurrect people from near death. And however many adverse effects you can find the fact that it saves lives isn't one you can argue with whether it suits your agenda or not.

Good grief woman.

what was that described as, Matthew?

Kizzy we will talk about exercise too, but people who can be helped by ECT are long past the point of getting up and exercising. There's a place and time for everything.

Who said it was a conspiracy against women?... I simply stated that 2/3rds of the study were women.

The participants were referred from clinics, the clients were, I'm presuming the locals within the areas involved.

The number of psychotic people in the study were stated, what would the effects of 12 treatments on someone literally at deaths door incidentally?



If you were to commit to a treatment for around a year as your time frame for treatments and frequency suggests then might there not be some improvement if you undertook anything for that length of time?... exercise? counselling? group therapy?

It appears in the study to have been a raging success.... which begs the question why was there the offer to draw your own conclusion?
Would it not be hailed as a miracle, would all these incapacitated OAPS not be flooding in rapture through the clinic doors, blinking into the sun cured?

I'm appalled at you thinking people who need ECT can exercise their depression away, Kizzy

Good grief woman? you have lurched from it being a cure all for mild grade depression to now having effectively the power to raise the living dead....

I have no doubt that once IN that catatonic state this may be an option, but as a preventative strategy, no.

Once again this is my opinion, it isn't hysterical or agenda based, I am taking part in this debate as are others and I a asking you to try to remain civil in your responses.

Are you, so you think it is more beneficial to trigger your brains natural responses via a seizure rather than exercise... Why is that?

As seen in the study there are those for whom ECT is ultimately the only option, but not all and by no means mild to moderate depression imo.

What made you think ECT is used on mild to moderate depression? :conf:
Such an invasive treatmend would never be used like that.
Do you think they dole out ECT left, right and centre?
It's only used in extreme cases. I have severe depression and was turned down flat as not severe enough.

borderline

how do you feel about that? do you think it's accurate?

There's no need for the aggressive / sarcastic comments Kizzy; if you want to have a rethink and discuss these things in a mature, level-headed way then by all means I think everyone is more than willing to do so, but other than that I genuinely just can't be bothered with the snarky attitude.

Here's some info I did that 'quiz' I scored 29 so apparently I need ECT.... Except I don't as I know that moods peak and trough, it's important not to get fixated on the negative... Especially for me as an ex addict.

I would advise staying away from any form of crutches, especially shocking ones.

As an experiment if only as a way to prove me wrong I would take that quiz then take some exercise of your choice for a month or so, then take that test again.... I will eat my hat if that score hasn't improved some!

Shall we move the conversation along to gaslighting? :hehe:

Again who on earth says you need ECT for mild/moderate depression?
Kizzy, please don't spread such dangerous misinformation

Redway in this thread.

'ECT's traditionally held in reserve for the most severe cases because of attitudes like kizzy's but it's meant to be the most effective treatment for all shades of depression.'

bc there are different kinds like psychotic, unipolar, bipolar,
it means different types
NOT degrees of severity!

You have identified you are severely depressed and you can communicate with others as to possible avenues out of it... That alone is a huge leap towards recovery! for some reason your doctor may not feel that this would be beneficial for you, what else was suggested as an alternative?

I'm aware of that they were catagorised in the PDF study I posted ..

Anxiety 1 0.1
Bipolar disorder - depression 39 2.1
Bipolar disorder - mania 3 0.2
Bipolar disorder 21 1.1
Catatonia - cause not stated 41 7.8
Catatonia - depression 11 0.6
Catatonia - schizophrenia 8 0.4
Depression 1637 86.4
Mania 13 0.7
Mixed affective psychosis 3 0.2
Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome 1 0.1
Peri-natal depression 1 0.1
Post-natal depression 14 0.7
Persistent delusional disorder 1 0.1
Psychosis 9 0.5
Schizoaffective disorder -depression 9 0.5
Schizoaffective disorder 6 0.3
Schizophrenia 9 0.5
Schizophrenia - mood disorder

1637 aged persons in that study were found to be suffering 'depression' not any of the other sub categories you stated.

the usual, gardening, mild exercise if I can, keeping busy, plus my meds
but tbh, as soon as I stopped being suicidal they lost interest and tried to get me off their books asap
when I said I do all that as much as I can but I'm not progressing they said I'd plateaued and have to wait. I said I wasted 5 years, the answer: oh, in same cases in may take 15 and a shrug.
It's embarrassing to talk about details, but some days are better and others worse, but I'm not functioning whichever way you look at it. The worst is the constant fatigue. I get up and 30 min later I want to go back to bed.
Now I'm scared to go and ask to be referred back bc I know they simply don't have time and resources and will fob me off again.
There's ketamine treatment at nhs oxford where you pay for it, gonna do that in winter if things don't improve.

I don't know how why they didn't specify. But the fact is, ECT is administered very conservatively and I mean very.
If nothing else (and there's plenty of medical reasons), it is a very expensive treatment requiring hospital stay etc. No doctor would dream of recommending it if there were alternatives.

BIB 1: as I say it's more about what's implied than what's said in black-and-white. It's you who questioned why 2/3 of the referred patients were women and I flipped it back by pointing out that the huge majority of collective patients were white. I didn't question it or allude to it being evidence of systemic racism in the way you implied the slight preponderance of women was an example of sexism in ECT.

BIB 2: first up everyone who's referred for ECT is ultimately psychotic in some form or other. Barking at the moon or in catatonic stupor they're all expressions of psychosis so all the patients in that study were suffering from it. 12 treatment's the minimum number for any course of ECT whether they are at death's door or just have moderately severe depression. It's never a one-time thing even in the lightest cases. I could only assume that the standard 12-treatment course would tone down the illness for at least a time and remove the risk of death in the patient who's at death's door. But you could always ignore that and bring up a few one-off cases of ECT gone wrong. Anything that helps you shame ECT even more innit.

BIB 3: continuation ECT's rare and if it is used only about once monthly. They're expected to be on other treatment regimes according to the nature of their illness. Whatever about being a pure naturalist but why stop at exercise? What's the deal with life-saving treatments when you can use a bit of St John's wart after all?
ECT's not supposed to alter the long-term course of the illness. It's a symptomatic treatment just like any other. You can say it's not appropriate for mild to moderate depression but at least it's more fitting to both grave and mild depression than a bit of jogging is for someone who's emaciated or stuporous from a delusional depression that makes them lie still in bed because voices threaten them with hell if they move left or right. St John's Wart is probably a waste of time for those high-grade cases too.

BIB 4: what are you even on about this time? I don't understand.

BIB 1: It's the best treatment for mild and severe depression but it's reserved for the most severe cases. Not least because of the public disapproval that you've done crystal clear justice to on this thread so far. This is one of the things we're talking about.

BIB 2: until you stop skating over the 90% success rate and the lack of ethnic representation compared to your point about women and OAPs being over represented I don't believe that.



I don't think you know the difference between reactive low mood and bona-fide psychiatric depression that just happens to be be not too severe. There's a huge difference.