Mental health/controversial treatments

[Redway]

Twosugars recommended one time making a long-running thread re. mental illness (Vicky could make this sticky) and I thought in here can go general questions about mental illness and especially controversial shades.

Thought I’d kick-start by mentioning one controversial mental treatment (electroconvulsive therapy/ECT) and challenging the myths about that practice (wholly undeserved) but like I say this is the thread for any questions you’ve got about these things.

Hope you’re alright with me mentioning your name TS.

Edit - link to the ECT post http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...=344393&page=4 (comment 87)

[Twosugars]

Thank you, Redway, for starting this thread. It should give me a kick to get on with it too.
Look forward to see what we can make of it.

I remember almost begging for ECT a couple of years ago, when none of antidepressants seemed to work. They told me no chance.
Why is it so little used now? Why the stigma? I've heard it is quite a shock (no pun intended) but some psych meds can have some debilitating side-effects too.

[Toy Soldier]

Most places still have strict regulations on when ECT can be used, it can only be used "freely" in certain in-patient clinical settings (e.g. If you've been held involuntarily on the grounds of the Mental Health Act). Of course even then it's a voluntary treatment.

It is apparently very effective, it can completely alleviate some forms of clinical depression for some people for a short period of time (sometimes weeks) and offer respite in that way. Also providing that glimpse of the "light at the end of the tunnel" can help people overall, if they've lost sight of what feeling OK actually feels like.

The main issue with it is that the effect is temporary... It wears off after a while and has to be repeated. Also, every time its repeated it becomes less effective (doesn't last as long) so eventually it becomes impractical as an ongoing treatment...

It also varies massively from person to person with some people having massive relief, and others it not doing anything at all.

The procedure itself, apparently, can be distressing for observers but not for the patient themself these days as its done under heavy sedation. But it basically triggers seizures so for anyone watching, it seems pretty barbaric... And obviously was pretty barbaric in the past when it was a less refined procedure and sedation wasn't always used.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Thank you, Redway, for starting this thread. It should give me a kick to get on with it too.
Look forward to see what we can make of it.

I remember almost begging for ECT a couple of years ago, when none of antidepressants seemed to work. They told me no chance.
Why is it so little used now? Why the stigma? I've heard it is quite a shock (no pun intended) but some psych meds can have some debilitating side-effects too.

It’s the best treatment for melancholia (severe depression) but it’s alwats seen as a last resort for emergencies or when three or more treatments have failed partly because several rounds of it are needed in a hospital stay and partly because of the ignorance of the general public. Note I always use melancholia for high-grade psychotic depressions.

I know it’s used for schizophrenia and bipolar mania too. It’s good for pregnant bipolar women who can’t take lithium during the first trimester at least if they have an episode.

What do you want to know re. technique/preparation specifics? Want me to tackle the amnesia situation?

[glibberglobber]

Why is this in SD&N when mental health is about health

If I was looking for an answer to a mental health I wouldn't go to SD&N

Yea , discuss controversial treatments etc etc but make individual threads for that too

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Redway

It’s the best treatment for melancholia (severe depression) but it’s alwats seen as a last resort for emergencies or when three or more treatments have failed partly because several rounds of it are needed in a hospital stay and partly because of the ignorance of the general public. Note I always use melancholia for high-grade psychotic depressions.

I know it’s used for schizophrenia and bipolar mania too. It’s good for pregnant bipolar women who can’t take lithium during the first trimester at least if they have an episode.

What do you want to know re. technique/preparation specifics? Want me to tackle the amnesia situation?

Will it not confuse anybody if melancholia stands for severe psychotic depressions?

Give us a good intro, Redway: technique/preparation, uses, side-effects plus anything extra you consider useful.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Most places still have strict regulations on when ECT can be used, it can only be used "freely" in certain in-patient clinical settings (e.g. If you've been held involuntarily on the grounds of the Mental Health Act). Of course even then it's a voluntary treatment.

That's more or less what I was told.

[JoshBB]

afaik, the therapy helps relieve the symptoms but doesn't really target the 'cause'. so, it's short-term.

i might be wrong ofc

[Maru]

ECT often makes me think of what my doctor suggested to me in the past for something else. They have something that is done for painful bladder where they put you under and pack your bladder full with water, i.e. essentially expanding it... it sounds awful when you think about it, if something is already inflamed and ulcerated, why would you want to expand it?? You'd think expanding something like that would cause significant pain. And it is literally hell at first supposedly, but then it can cause periods of relief for several months after as it does something to "spread" the nerves. I was never quite bad enough to need it done, but it was fascinating...

Sometimes with restless leg, punching it can help things to calm down. Though hard to sleep when I have to sit up to punch myself... but nerves really respond to the weirdest things... We're still learning about chronic pain, but I wouldn't be surprised if depression and physical pain are linked in such a way through the nerves somehow that when there is the ability to treat one, we could probably accommodate the other. Maybe "retrain" the nerves somehow. Like one example, some people have their bladders removed if the symptoms are severe enough (and untreatable)... but sometimes the pain remains as a sort of "phantom pain"... and this is unusually common... I guess it is possible for something to build up overtime overtime that it leaves a physical "mark" on us. Pain is a weird thing... There is a strong link between depression and pain in general, so maybe there are associations made over-time that make it possible to continue to feel symptoms despite "relief"... in the physical sense... and I guess ECT "disrupts" and similar trauma to this effect causes a "numbing" effect?

I was in a study for the use of an anti-depressant drug that helps with pain. A lot of the newer medications are tweaked from what was learned by doctors experimenting with using anti-depressants "off-label" to treat pain... so I feel like the more we explore that area and learn about it, the more effective we'll probably be at treating things like depression, etc... is my hope.

[Jay28jay2]

Is there any way I can hide this thread, I just find it too triggering for me personally because I see it on the side of the website and I’ve read what is on it and itjust reminds me of my current struggle with anxiety and OCD and depression

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Jay28jay2

Is there any way I can hide this thread, I just find it too triggering for me personally because I see it on the side of the website and I’ve read what is on it and itjust reminds me of my current struggle with anxiety and OCD and depression

It’s better to face and accept your issues than ignore them

The only way to hide it would be to hide the whole SD subforum

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by glibberglobber

Why is this in SD&N when mental health is about health

If I was looking for an answer to a mental health I wouldn't go to SD&N

Yea , discuss controversial treatments etc etc but make individual threads for that too

you do have a point somehow, there is a health subforum on here

[glibberglobber]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

you do have a point somehow, there is a health subforum on here

Thanks

[glibberglobber]

Originally Posted by Smithy

It’s better to face and accept your issues than ignore them

The only way to hide it would be to hide the whole SD subforum

This is in the wrong subforum. Surely it should be in Health, Beauty and Fashion?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Smithy

It’s better to face and accept your issues than ignore them

The only way to hide it would be to hide the whole SD subforum

It could be put in private chat then it wouldn't show up

Pm a mod about it Jay

[Nicky91]

i guess either private chat would be a good choice cause it is something from someone's private lives and those who don't want to see it, won't see it then

health, beauty, fashion subforum it would fit the health bit then

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It could be put in private chat then it wouldn't show up

Pm a mod about it Jay

I don't know what the other mods think about it but I think it should stay here, while I'm sympathetic to Jay, we can't just hide every thread that could be potentially triggering to someone, where would you draw the line? And I agree with Smithy that Mental health should be spoken about

[Twosugars]

Thank you, Niamh. Your and other mods support for this thread is gratefully appreciated!

Some ideas for future discussion before Redway gives us an overview of ECT:

-noticed there's fair few members on antidepressant medication, so propose creating an anonymous poll in order to identify which meds are taken so that we can then discuss them in more detail; as in any poll thread, there will be an opportunity to post if anybody wishes, but the poll itself would be anonymous
-anxiety as opposed to depression, what is it and its symptoms
-autism
-suicidal ideation (thinking of suicide) - cry for help
-overview of personality disorders - plain introduction listing them and providing symptoms plus when personality traits turn into personality disorders?

Let us know what would you like covered.

[Nicky91]

autism, i also have my own mental health problems in connection to that

i'm mentally more 15 or 16 years old i guess, and i also am socially very awkward

so yeah that's also a reason i had joined these forums to just try and make friends

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

autism, i also have my own mental health problems in connection to that

i'm mentally more 15 or 16 years old i guess, and i also am socially very awkward

so yeah that's also a reason i had joined these forums to just try and make friends

TiBB would be a duller place without you Nicky

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

TiBB would be a duller place without you Nicky

aw thank you Niamh

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

autism, i also have my own mental health problems in connection to that

i'm mentally more 15 or 16 years old i guess, and i also am socially very awkward

so yeah that's also a reason i had joined these forums to just try and make friends

well in that case you've been very successful, you've made lots of friends. 11th most loved member
The spectrum of autism is a fascinating topic. I'd imagine it's more frequent than expected.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

well in that case you've been very successful, you've made lots of friends. 11th most loved member
The spectrum of autism is a fascinating topic. I'd imagine it's more frequent than expected.

true, i think my good sense of humour played a huge part in me becoming 11th most loved member

yeah i have a light form of autism though, i only have the lack of good social interaction bit and being mentally more a teen


you also have severe forms of autism, the ones who can't eat, shower themselves, and are mentally more 4 or 5 years old

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't know what the other mods think about it but I think it should stay here, while I'm sympathetic to Jay, we can't just hide every thread that could be potentially triggering to someone, where would you draw the line? And I agree with Smithy that Mental health should be spoken about

I agree it should be spoken about but some people might not want to air it to the the wider community/guests, but of course you are the boss.

[Cherie]

Does everyone believe drugs should be the first point of call or should other therapies be investigated first?

Not a huge fan of drugs for even a headache unless it is a last resort


https://www.mind.org.uk/information-.../#.W2xhkChKiUk