It's better than most thankfully, however tolerance and understanding has to be two way.

What Carol Thatcher was clearly out of out in today's Britain and she should have said it, however it was once part of British culture, to the extent the g word was use to sell jam, and as such it takes time to remove such cultural elements even if they are undesirable. Clearly Carol Thatcher deserved to be punished by the BBC and she should have issued an apology. All that has happened is she has been punished, there has been no apology and her actions has polarized opinions on the use of the word and probably brought a little used word back into use.

I would say only a small minority of people think what she said was right, most of the objection I heard on the Radio 5 live phone in were that it was she said it off air and following the story people seem to think the BBC have over reacted.

Reading between the lines about what is being said by Carol Thatcher and BBC it looks like the sacking was more to do with a clash or personalities. Management clearly thought she did something wrong but refused to condone the leak to the press. while Carol Thatcher refused to apologize to something she said in private without the BBC at least backing her up that the leaking of the story was wrong in the first place.

It's clear that she must have realized that implications of what she had said when the story broke in the press however she is like her mother a woman of principles and wouldn't back down and apologize because it wasn't said on air and the press should never have got the story. I would also go as far as saying that she probably felt that since she wasn't air that the story had nothing to do with her job at the BBC.

She could have been made to apologize if the management had handled the situation correctly but they were heavy handed and sacked her.

Yeh i am but the problem is you know nothing about me really so i dont want to be called racist.

:thumbs:

Gael Monfils.

I love how you avoided my question though, so I'll repeat. If someone is compared to another doll or puppet etc, is this discrimination? Or is it just because of connotations with golliwogs and the inability to see past them?

The bottom line is, the only way to erradicate certain things from society, is to be swift about it! She doesnt even think it was wrong obviously, and that its acceptable since she didnt say it on air! Thats the typical coward racist, only does it in private!

SOrry it is not better than most, when it comes to having a long way to go! BEtter than some yes, but I woudl say in the grand scheme, the UK is behind a lot of societies!

That term, is a known racist term! If you use it to call someone that, you are racist. Carole Thatcher knows what the term means, and trying to liken it to just a joke, is insulting people's intelligence. ANd I'd like to see you go and tell someone that they look like that doll! And see what happens!

Clearly you are no better! As you just made the same statement here without any problems. Its very easy to be racist behind a computer!

Errrm, based on your postings, I think you are indeed Racist!!!!

Well you've just confirmed one thing to me, you have a clear inability to see past any racial connotations attached to golliwogs.

You asked a question, I gave an answer. Nothing to do with hiding behind a computer. If we were in the same room and you asked the question I would have said exactly the same. Saying someone looks like something is not racist or discriminatory. Lets rephrase what you've basically asked me. Find someone who looks like Jim from Rosie & Jim. Probably not that hard. Now as that has no racial connotations, can you now see what I'm getting at?

She never called anyone a golliwog and neither did I in my post. Its just saying someone looks like one. There is a huge huge huge difference.

Perhaps you should take a step back and take a look at the bigger picture, not what appears to be a very narrowminded view of "golliwog = racism".

I just get annoyed when people think they are hard done by, and how everything in the world is becoming racist...

I assure you i am not a racist...

Id like to see you say that to someone to their face, that they look like one, not telling me! Thats the coward way.
The fact that you think its not racist, is the sadest thing of all!
People who like to ignore anything with racists connotations, are the one that help keep it in society! Thankfully I dont think there are alot of you left!

Errmm, well I am black, there are a few people I consider racist here! You are definitely one of them!

I think you just take the things i say as racist as i can't see what i have said that is actually discriminatory... ?


Ohh and.

I lost my virginity to a black girl.

And My most recent girlfriend was black

both i stayed with for about 8 months + and the most recent girlfirend saw that video about Katt williams talking about white people out of order to.

No you wouldnt!

Yeh well you tell me somthing i have said that has been racist then?

Because i dont like the majority of black people that were in big brother you called me racist after that.

Based on your postings, your views, based on the racists actions that you support, and the fact that you get annoyed if people complain about them, based on deragory terms you freely use (ie: Pikey, term that you taught me unfortunately), and just your general likes and dislikes in terms of contestants on TV, I think you are racist!

And as time goes it just confirms it to me! As events happen, as issues are raised, you keep proving me right!

Oh I already have told someone they look like one, they laughed. Also I only told you because I actually directly answer questions.

I also think its sad that some people do find it racist. Obviously people can't see beyond anything remotely racist and look at things in the bigger picture, ie where they are not racist at all. I've already said similar things over and over in this thread but is saying someone looks like a potato discrimination? Surely someone must be offended by something that doesn't seem serious? Observations are not racist. Calling people a certain thing is. Huge difference that you clearly cannot grasp because you hold on to the view that everything associated with golliwogs is racist.

Also I don't think its people who keep things with racist connotations keeping racism in society. I think its white upperclass politicians who are offended on behalf of an entire race over things so trivial such as "black coffee" and "blackboard", because words with black in are definitely going to offend people :rolleyes: Its those pointless arguments over nothing big which keep racism in society- people tread on egg shells because they are scared about what they can and cannot say, and the slightest slip up results in a public lynching.

Some people seriously need to get a grip on reality. Perhaps racism wouldn't be so bad if people weren't so scared to say certain things, or if we weren't banned from the most innocent of phrases which suddenly become racist for no apparent reason.

Using that same logic, I could also say you are racist given your favourites.

Racist actions i support such as??

Get annoyed when people complain because i get bored of people saying the same things over and over.

I use pikey as a bit of a joke really, im my area everyone says it does that make them all racist, and the fact that my dad and grandparents used to be pikeys to.

And i dislike people like charley she was big headed and nasty, alex she was really nasty, science because he was really mouthy...

i dislike many white contestants to.

You take everything i say as rasict, i dont like someone whos black so im racist...

:rolleyes:

On top of having 2 black girlfriends who obviously didnt think so, and my favourite singer is half cast.

That doesn't work it just creates extremism. Doing something like this just fuels hatred and is used by far right groups to gain membership. The firm approach is better than the just stomp on it approach as it educates people rather than imposing ideas on people which does really work and people rebel against.

As for what Carol Thatcher, she said it without thinking as away of describing a hair style. She should never have said it and she was wrong to think it, but she did in what she through of was a private conversation. However that conversation was reported and then the BBC over reacted. The result of which she hasn't apologized which she should have done, and could have been made to do if the whole affair had be handled right by the BBC.

As far as i can see is the only winners out of this are the extremist on both sides. The ones that want everything race related to disappear overnight and those on the other end that have nationalist tendencies who want a pure race and will use it as a way of showing the erosion of British Culture to build there number.

Where is the middle voice of reason in al this? Has it been lost in an argument that isn't clear cut as some people feel it should be? Isn't re-education and rehabilitation better then imposition and retribution?

According to Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission who said "Britain is probably the most tolerant country in Europe" last April and I bet we are much better than the US.

DOnt compare trivial things to this! Its not the same and you know it! IT would just be very convenient for you, if you could freely make certain statements! A lot of people find it restricting because they are now living in a society where the majority of people are tryng to crack dowm on racial term, and trying to promote respect for all! Its obvious that the minority who actually condone these things, and freely use certain terms on their daily basis, feel the walls closing in, and are sufficating! Well Its too bad because things are changing! There is no place for racism in the world, and it annoys a lot of people where they are slowly becoming the minority!

As or you telling someone the look like that doll, well i that person doesnt have self respect for themselves, I cant help them! Like I said before, I dont recommend you said that to most people!

Oh the good old I have a black GF excuse! I dont believe you for one second!! I would be surprised if you know a black person to be honest!

YOu just used the term Half cast! Its obviously very common in your parts! I betcha, your "black Girlfriend" Think its an OK term to use!
Anyways, like I said, you keep confirming it every single day, just added one to your gems. and I am sure it will happen again soon enough!

No its not the same, I never said it was. I was just arguing against the point you made about how racism is kept in society.

That person also has a lot of self respect for themselves but can take a joke and isn't easily offended.

Also I agree with cracking down on it as a racist term, definitely. But I don't think we should pretend as though the doll never existed, because in itself the doll is very harmless and was never made with racist intentions. Its only people who use the word with intent to cause offence that are racist imo and if you can eliminate the racism then why should the doll not be allowed to exist on its own, and why should we not be able to speak about the doll without it constantly being deemed as racist because of an ignorant minority?

Lol you have an opinion and you will stick to it no matter what i say...

"Doubt i even know a black person" Sorry but this is getting pathetic, what do you think i just dont talk to black people or somthing.

I speak to black people in my gym one is a good friend of mine... but you know obviously im lying about that to... :rolleyes:

Because you know what Tom, you just said that Gael Monfils looks like the doll!! Now what prompts you to ever say such a thing!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ellingThat.jpghttp://www.1001actus.com/wp-content/...and-garros.jpg


Things like that, are the reason people arent particularly keen on it! ANd again, it will become more and more difficult for people who feel like they should be able to say racial things with no consequences.

Im just going to stop you are going to continue to call me racist whatever i say, so i can't be bothered... I know im not racist, someone who twists everything i say so it makes me sound bad calls me racist ok. Have fun, i dont wanna hear it.