Of course everyone loved Blair, Brown and Cameron! Your point?

If you want to be popular - you don't go into politics!

......'and educated women makes her own rules' Looks like you just ruled yourself out then, hoist by your own petard ... lol! Who the heck is noone anyway ... is that who you are answerable to? If you meant 'no one' .. well, that explains alot about your philosophy And your posts!

Everyone is answerable to someone and nobody can make their own rules.

Oh a typo - what a disgrace! I have noticed plenty of grammatical errors in your offerings - so wouldn't be so patronising if I were you!

I meant within the confines of a relationship! A woman with a decent job that pays a decent salary - is free to make her own rules about what sort of behaviour she will tolerate from a partner! She never has to fear - not being able to pay the bills or provide for her children - if she has to walk away!

That is all well and good, but you're forgetting she has emotions. It's not as simple as you're making it out to be.

That depends!

You asked the question earlier - why do women put up with abusive partners - and I am just stating why it is in women's best interests to put themselves in a position where they won't have to! At least that way - they will have more choices!

Yeah definitely, but you seem to think just because they are intelligent they wouldn't let their emotions get the better of them. It happens to people in all situations and from all walks of life.

Of course - we all have emotions - just sometimes, for our own sanity and that of others, we have to rise above them!

Indeed indeed.

Though thats not always as easy as it sounds.

If only life was that simple. A lot less wars and strife in general if everyone could arise above their emotions.

You're spot on there - I was in an abusive marriage for 10 years and yet had always considered myself a very strong, independent and intelligent woman. The abuse was insiduous at first, isolating me from my friends and family bit by bit, moving us away from familiar surroundings where I had a support network, then the verbal abuse, putting me down, insinuating that I was stupid or had no valid opinions, then the emotional and psychological abuse, undermining my self worth and self respect, telling me I was a rubbish mother, wife, daughter, sister etc, keeping me short of housekeeping since I was financially dependent on him having two small children both under 5 years old and no viable means of income, and culminating in physical abuse where I was punched, kicked and finally (the defining moment for me) having a knife held to my throat and telling me he was going to kill me. Many times I forgave him because I knew he had had a dreadful upbringing, having been abandoned by his own mother when he was five, and I made all sorts of excuses for why he was bullying me. But I finally accepted that he could not and would not ever change, and I started to fear for my children rather than myself. The knife incident made me realise just how poisonous our relationship was, and what danger me and my kids were in.

So finally I gathered the last remnants of my dignity and out of sheer self preservation I removed myself and my children from that situation and we went to a shelter from where I gathered the strength to divorce him and move on with my life.

Unless you have been a victim of such a manipulative and psychopathic bully, you cannot believe how difficult it is to get away - he threatened to kill me and the children if we ever left him, and to harm my brothers and their families if I went to them for sanctuary. I spent five years with no contact at all with the rest of my family because I was afraid of what he might do to them. I was also so ashamed that I had brought this monster into all of our lives. I spent years looking over my shoulder and we moved quite frequently so he wouldn't find us. It's only now my sons are grown that I no longer fear him, and I am now happy with someone else.

They do say that what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger and I would definitely agree. Just don't judge all women in abusive relationships as being weak or stupid, because I am neither, and I'm here to say it could happen to anyone from any cultural, financial, or educational background. There as many upper class battered women as there are working class ones, so don't be too quick to blame the victim.

Awwww damn, sounds like you hard a rough time :(. It's good you managed to get out in the end though. Yours seems like an almost textbook case. Start off as Mr Charming and then all these little things build up until it eventually grinds you down. That is the thing with whole whole 'bad upbringing' thing, people use that as an excuse, but in reality, plenty of people have bad childhoods and still turn out to be nice people.

I read an interesting book called 'Without Conscience' about Psychopaths and the way they work, I can only imagine it must've been terrible to live with such a destructive person in your life. I mean, from the outside, people can easily say, "Oh well I would've got out there a lot earlier". But like you said, unless they've been in that situation they will never understand the power someone like that can have over you. I mean I guess it's better late than never in your case, as in it happened all so subtly, that you didn't realise it until it was nearly too late. Most people don't think these type of people exist, they think they're a myth or something, and they're like "Oh well it wouldn't happen to me" But it's all very real.

im so sorry that happened to you.

I'll have a read of that book if I can get a copy because it does seem abusers all seem to use the same modus operandi: divide and conquer - separate and dominate. The key thing is cutting your victim off from any outside support.

I just look upon it now as a bad part of my life that is all in the past - and at the end of the day something good came out of the marriage - my children. The fact I can talk about those events so dispassionately just shows how far I've come:blush: It's almost like they happened to someone else.

Aw, thanks - it's all in the past now:blush:

That book if definitely worth a read. It's by Robert Hare. And yeah it's good you're able to look at that as a bad part of your life. Some aren't so lucky really, they dwell and it's ends up eating them inside, they just can't understand how someone is capable of those sort of actions without seeming remotely sorry.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Without-Cons...e=UTF8&s=books

There is that book, a few reviews too.

i think husbands and wives that abuse there partner are sad *****s.

Thanks, have ordered it! Got to say that it was that experience that inspired me to study psychology, an endlessly fascinating subject. I don't see the point of dwelling on events that can't be changed, as there's nothing to gain from being bitter and twisted, life is way too short.

Yeah, I'm pretty fascinated by the human mind and stuff. Let me know what you think when you've read it!

Will do:blush:

My god angus your story was so moving,your a remarkable woman,to go through all that,and come out the other side,you deserve all the happiness in the world,you should be so proud of yourself.:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

Oh, I'm fine now - when I look back it seems like it all happened to someone else. Bringing the boys up on my own was hard but so very rewarding and they've turned out absolutely fine with no discernible hangups! I guess when you have kids, you don't have time for self pity:hugesmile: The day to day routine thankfully was a relief and so comforting after all those years of walking on eggshells! No-one should ever knock good old boring normality!

She got to be prime minister, pretty good considering she,s just a women and all, what have you achieved

Angus, you are very brave.

I am so pleased you found someone make you happy now.

Im so glad ,I hope your boys realise what a wonderful mum they have,

Thanks - I sort of surprised myself by being able to post it like that which which was really only in response to comments on here as to why some women stay in abusive relationships. I hope people will realise that leaving is not as easy or clearcut as it looks from the outside.

Oh I'm the lucky one - they've grown up into sons to be proud of, so something wonderful came out of it all.:blush:

No. Not imo anyway.

Why not, elaborate - or are you just sexist - with no logical reason of explanation!

Want I dont get is the fact that women often complain that if a man sleeps around it is ok. But if a woman sleeps around she is a slut. but yet it is women who are the most nasty about women who sleep around. A bit like complaining that you are allergic to chicken. Then going to work at KFC.

Which is something I have said on many occasions!

Unfortunately many women are their own worst enemies! Although let's not forget that men created the double standard - whilst some women are stupid enough to reinforce it! Some are simply too easily influenced by male opinions - particularly when young and naive! When older women do it - it is usually bitchiness!

Aw Angus :hug:
My father was an abusive, cowardly, drunk.. My mother took us away from him when we were very young and the council wanted to house us in one of the most god awful areas.. My mum wouldn't have it and borrowed some money from my Grandma and bought a dilapitated big house and literally worked her fingers to the bone doing it up (I remember her standing helping the builders mix cement lol) and opening her own bed and breakfast.. From there she got into buying, doing up and selling property and ensured my sister and I had a fantastic childhood and a good upbringing.. We have wanted for nothing (not to the point of being spoilt) and I owe my mum so much.. So yeah, my dad may have been physically stronger, but mentally and emotionally, she's definitely the strong one like yourself Angus :D

Oh and to answer the OP's original question: Of course both sexes sgould be treated equally, but I do think that in general men are the stronger sex physically and women are stronger mentally.I realise that there will be exceptions to this but in general I believe it to be true.

OMG angus:shocked: I'm so sorry to hear that but atleast it's a success story and as you say "what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger" . It must have taken so much courageous for you to get yourself and your children out of that situation. I was in a situation, not any where near as bad as yours mind you, but these kind of people all seem to do the same things, isolate you from your support network and break you down so that all your confidence and faith in yourself is gone and it's unbelievably hard to try and get that back again.

Thanks for sharing that story, it was inspiring :hug:

it seems to me that $$$$$$ is the most important factor, poor men and poor women have a lot more in common than rich women and poor women and visa versa IMO