Originally Posted by sassysocks (Post 7588212)

I don't know what would be enough, but what we are getting now, which is practically nothing, is not it. The parents of these Muslim men publicly disowning them would be a start.

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123 (Post 7588218)

The world would be a better place without ANY religion.

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 7588069)

There's been plenty of anti-isis movements and protests from the muslim community but you act like they're condoning Isis because you're only looking to the mainstream media for answers. The media will never paint muslims in a good light, they earn too much money from Muslims being the evil boogeymen to scare people like you into buying their papers and buying into their crap.

Muslims have spoken out against Isis and extremism but they'll never get highlighted in the media since it doesn't fit with what the media's image of Islam is, thus it gets ignored. The media will only ever typically highlight stories that paint Muslims in a bad light.

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 7588178)

A million Muslims could unite in the middle of Trafalgar Square and have a massive protest against Isis and Extremism and it still would not be enough for you, nothing ever will. It's much easier to blame the Muslims and think them all terrorists isn't it?

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 7588387)

complete made up lies..........its nothing to do with the media.......the truth is radical islam is blowing innocent people up across the globe in random acts of horrific terrorism..........you actually dare to belittle the evil they do and pass it off as the fault of the media or other religions...we see through your lies. its radical islam and it needs to be targetted

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 7587062)

Not sure I agree with the Enoch comment, but the rest of it is pretty close to the truth.

Nice to see you wannashag!

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123 (Post 7588218)

The world would be a better place without ANY religion.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster (Post 7589048)

Sorry Johnny, but this statement is pure cliched fallacy. So will you please bear with me while I explain just why I say as much?

NON-RELIGIOUS WARS (source: Steve Perry):

1.) The Seven Years’ War (Britain & France)
2.)The American Revolution
3.)The French Revolution
4.)The Napoleonic Wars (France & Europe)
5.)The Revolutions in the Americas
6.)The Wars to create and preserve the British Empire (Boer War, Irish Revolution, and the Great Game with Russia would all be examples)
7.)The American Civil War
8.)The Crimean War
9.)The Spanish-American War
10.)The Great War, The War to End All Wars, or World War I.
11.)The Italian invasion of Ethiopia
12.)The Spanish Civil War
13.)Stalin’s invasions of Finland, the Baltic states, and Poland
14.)World War II
15.)The Chinese Revolution
16.)The Cold War, including but not limited to the Korean War, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Vietnam War, the American intervention in Grenada, and the Soviet campaign in Afghanistan
17.)The Cultural Revolution in China
18.)Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge Revolution
19.)The Falklands War
20.)The Persian Gulf War between Iran & Iraq
21.)The Persian Gulf War between the United Nations and Iraq
The Breakup of Yugoslavia (beginning with Slovenia).

More:

Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopaedia of Wars, is an extensive work which analyses 1,763 wars which have been fought since the beginning of recorded human history, and concludes that only 123 as being religious in nature. This is a mere 6.98% of all wars, but if one removes wars waged in the name of Islam (66), this already low percentage falls by half to just 3.23%.

Irrefutably then, non-religious motivations and secular ideologies are to blame for nearly all wars – not Religion.

But the above only deals with war and the statement was that “The world would be a better place without ANY religion.” So I’ll continue:

What of atrocities, genocide, and other examples of ‘Man’s Inhumanity To Man’ outside of the accepted definition of ‘war’ - as in ‘Dictatorships’?:

From R. J. Rummel’s work ‘Lethal Politics and Death by Government’:.

Non-Religious Dictator Lives Lost
• Joseph Stalin - 42,672,000
• Mao Zedong - 37,828,000
• Adolf Hitler - 20,946,000
• Chiang Kai-shek - 10,214,000
• Vladimir Lenin - 4,017,000
• Hideki Tojo - 3,990,000
• Pol Pot - 2,397,0003

Rummel says: “Almost 170 million men, women and children have been shot, beaten, tortured, knifed, burned, starved, frozen, crushed or worked to death; buried alive, drowned, hung, bombed or killed in any other of a myriad of ways governments have inflicted death on unarmed, helpless citizens and foreigners. The dead could conceivably be nearly 360 million people. It is though our species has been devastated by a modern Black Plague. And indeed it has, but a plague of Power, not germs.”

What of Non-State murders?

Abul Djabar killed 65 men and boys in Afghanistan by strangling them with turbans while raping them and was suspected of over 300 murders.

Javad Iqbal Mughal killed 100 boys Lahore, Pakistan.

Luis Garavo killed 172 children in Colombia but suspected of over 400 murders.

The historical list totals many thousands and include many more familiar names, from Americans such as Gary Ridgeway (90 victims) and Jeffrey Dahmer, to home-grown monsters such as Harold Shipman (up to 297 victims) and Peter Sutcliffe and Fred and Rose West, and all with not a religious motive in sight.

But hey, let’s not stop here; perhaps our streets and homes would be safer if we rid the world of all religion?

Let’s just look at a couple of statistics from The Office of National Statistics for 2014:

• Latest figures from the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) show that, for the offences it covers, there were an estimated 7.0 million incidents of crime against households and resident adults (aged 16 and over) in England and Wales
• The numbers of rapes (24,043) and other sexual offences (48,934) are the highest recorded by the police since 2002/03.

7 Million Incidents of crime in one year, and this is just ‘reported’ crime.

But would this crime decrease without religion in the world or increase? Here’s why I firmly believe that crime would escalate:

A) Throughout history religion is only to blame for a miniscule percentage of all the atrocities, strife and troubles perpetrated by men against fellow men.
B) Without religion, all instances of ‘Man’s In humanity To Man, and all wars and crimes, would be thousands of times greater, because the simple fact is, that the greater billions of religious faithful throughout recorded history have been peaceful and law abiding specifically because of their religious beliefs – and this includes Christians, Muslims, Jews, and other faiths.

I’ll leave the last words to the much maligned (on here) Jesus Christ:

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man” (Mark 7:21–23).
:

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123 (Post 7589153)

Apparently god created everything yes?
I rest my case.

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7589933)

The christian god of the bible killed around 25 million in his book and of course happily watches 20,000 children die each day of the year from hunger

around 7.3 million a year or 730 million in the last 100 years

hi again kirk

Originally Posted by kirklancaster (Post 7589985)

Hi LT.

But the statement under discussion referred to religion. If there was no God and no religion, the world would not be a better place, and 20,000 children would still die each day of the year from hunger.

And according to Islam there is no God but Allah, so does your claim pertain to him?

Originally Posted by kirklancaster (Post 7586651)

I apologise for the delay in responding Matt, but I got drawn in elsewhere on here – unfortunately. This is going to be a long post , but could have been ten times longer because of the sheer weight of evidence that Obama is a Muslim. I have 28 pages on Obama and this very subject in my own files alone which are the result of researching and cross referencing internet articles, newspaper articles, and excerpts from 2 books (I’m currently writing a thriller novel ) I have found the usual articles which rebut some of which I post here, but after extensive past and recent cross checking, I'm inclined to believe this which I post.

Can I start with the name which is Obama’s:

HUSSEIN

This strictly Muslim name is reputedly unheard of prior to first being used by the prophet Muhammad when he named his grandson Husayn ibn Ali after claiming that he had been commanded to do so by the archangel Gabriel.

BACKGROUND
1) Obama was born a Muslim because his real father, Barack Obama Sr. was Muslim. So Obama was raised as a Muslim.

2)When Obama’s mother divorced Obama Sr, She married another Muslim - Lolo Soetoro. So Obama continued to be raised as a Muslim:

3) Obama's own half-sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng states: "My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim."

4) In 1967 Obama’s family relocated to the predominantly Muslim country of Indonesia and Obama's first school was ‘Francis of Assisi’ a Catholic School which catered for other Faiths. Documents show that each student had to choose one of five state-sanctioned religions when registering – Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic or Protestant. Barack Hussein Obama – now using the name Barry Soetoro – registered his faith as Muslim.

5)A former Indonesian classmate of Obama’s - Rony Amir - is on record as stating that; “All the relatives of Barry's (Obama’s alias) father were very devout Muslims" and describes Obama as "previously quite religious in Islam."

6) Obama’s second school in Indonesia was the ‘Besuki’ Public School in Jakarta, where ‘Barry’ also registered his faith as Muslim.

7) Teachers and former classmates confirm that he enrolled as a Muslim.

8) As a Muslim pupil, Obama studied the Quran two hours every week.

9) In his autobiography, ‘Dreams of My Father’, Obama relates how he got into trouble for clowning around during “Koranic studies” confirming that he was a Muslim.

10) Nicholas D. Kristof of ‘The New York Times’ reports that Obama "recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them him with a “first-rate accent."

11) Obama's half-sister recalled that the family (including Obama) attended the mosque "for big communal events.

12) Obama’s childhood friends state that "Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque."

13) Not only is it on record that "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers." Zulfin Adi – an Indonesian Muslim friend of Obama’s states that Obama "was Muslim. He went to the mosque. I remember him wearing a sarong"

14) Indeed Matt, Obama himself has stated that while living in Indonesia, a Muslim country, he "didn't practice (Islam)" a statement which though designed to rebut claims that he is a Muslim, actually confirms that he is – practicing or not. (The claim that he is non-practicing is a lie anyway).

15) When questioned, Obama’s PR spokesperson went on record as saying that he couldn’t answer why Obama was listed as a Muslim at both his Indonesian schools and emphasised: . "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim."

16) However, when further pressed less than a couple of months later, the Obama PR Office “retreated from that absolute statement and instead issued a more nuanced one: "Obama has never been a practicing Muslim." Again, this distinction actually confirms that he is a Muslim.

Matt, the evidence that Obama was born and raised a Muslim is irrefutable in my opinion, but it is the depths of his deceit in trying to conceal this fact, and the hypocrisy of cloaking his Islamic faith under Christianity which I find highly suspect and very sinister.

So let’s see what Obama himself says about his faith and see if it tallies with the truth above.

Here’s Barack Hussein Obama’s declarations prior to securing the presidency, where he denies being a Muslim, denies ever having been a Muslim, and repeatedly stresses what a devout Christian he is:

Lie No 1) Barak Obama December 2007:
"I've always been a Christian......... The only connection I've had to Islam is that my grandfather on my father's side came from that country [Kenya]. But I've never practiced Islam."

Lie No 2)Barak Obama February 2008:
"I have never been a Muslim. … other than my name and the fact that I lived in a populous Muslim country for 4 years when I was a child [Indonesia, 1967-71] I have very little connection to the Islamic religion."

Lie No 3) 12th Nov 2008 - Obama’s Campaign Website when he was running for the presidency:
"Barack Obama Is Not and Has Never Been a Muslim," and: "Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian."

Lie No 4) 22nd Dec 2008 – When explaining his Muslim heritage: “My father was from Kenya, and a lot of people in his village were Muslim. He didn't practice Islam. Truth is he wasn't very religious. He met my mother. My mother was a Christian from Kansas, and they married and then divorced. I was raised by my mother. So, I've always been a Christian. The only connection I've had to Islam is that my grandfather on my father's side came from that country. But I've never practiced Islam. … For a while, I lived in Indonesia because my mother was teaching there. And that's a Muslim country. And I went to school. But I didn't practice.”

Now let’s just study the devout Christian image he projected during his 2008 Presidential Campaign as in this below taken from just one of his campaign leaflets:

“Guided by his Christian faith, Barack Obama is the leader we can trust....”

“Barak Obama: Committed Christian”

“I believe in the power of prayer”

“We do what we do because God is with us....

"When Moses was first called to lead his people to the promised land, he said, “I don’t think I can do it Lord, I don’t feel brave and courageous”. The Lord said, “I will be with you, I’ll show you what to do”

And then let’s weigh the above against his statements and actions concerning Christianity, since:

1) Prior to giving a televised speech from the ‘Gaston Hall’ in the Georgetown University, the White House requested the university to “cover over” a monogram symbolizing Jesus Christ’s name which would be in camera shot behind the President. “The Gold ‘IHS’ monogram inscribed on a pediment in the hall was covered over by a piece of black-painted plywood, and remained covered over the next day”.

Quotes By Barack Obama About Christianity and the Bible.

2) “Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation”

3) “We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation.”

4) “Which passages of scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is OK and that eating shellfish is an abomination? Or we could go with Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith?”

5) “Even those who claim the Bible’s inerrancy make distinctions between Scriptural edicts, sensing that some passages – the Ten Commandments, say, or a belief in Christ’s divinity – are central to Christian faith, while others are more culturally specific and may be modified to accommodate modern life.”

6) “If all it took was someone proclaiming I believe Jesus Christ and that he died for my sins, and that was all there was to it, people wouldn’t have to keep coming to church, would they.”

And this last proves Obama’s lies that his mother (who was a ‘secular humanist) was a Christian and so he was “raised as a Christian” –

7) “I’ve said this before, and I know this raises questions in the minds of some evangelicals. I do not believe that my mother, who never formally embraced Christianity as far as I know … I do not believe she went to hell.”

OBAMA AND ISLAM
1) Obama is on record as stating that:” The Muslim call to prayer is one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset and recited the opening lines; ‘Allah is supreme.... I witness that there is no God but Allah’ in a perfect Arabic accent.

2) Obama personally raised nearly $1 million dollars and campaigned for a Kenyan President who had a written agreement with Islamic leaders pledging to convert Kenya to an Islamic State which bans Christianity.

3) Obama stated that the autobiography of infamous black Muslim activist Malcolm X “inspired him in his youth”.

4) Obama visited several mosques whilst on a political trip to Kenya but did not visit any of the many churches or even the National Temple.

5) Obama enjoyed a bigger increase in voter support in 2008 (compared to 2004) by Muslims than by any other voting group, including blacks; "Muslim turnout in the U.S. elections reached 95 percent, the highest Muslim turnout in U.S. history."

6) Obama rarely attends church or has church services in the White House and when ‘President-elect’ he never attended [Sunday] church services – a departure from the example of his two immediate predecessors.

7) At the G-20 summit in April 2009, Obama bowed deeply to Saudi King Abdullah, a Muslim who is also the 'Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques'. This caused an outrage because no other US President in history had ever displayed such obsequious deference to any foreign official, and Obama himself has never bowed to any other Royal Leaders. Obama later stated, "We have to change our behavior in showing the Muslim world greater respect".

8) In 2006, Obama gave an irreverent speech about using the Bible in public policy. “It resembled a stand-up comedy act, with Obama making fun of the books of the Torah, The Ten Commandments and The Sermon on The Mount, and other key Biblical passages.

9) On September 25, 2012, in his address to The United Nations General Assembly, Obama stated that: "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam"

10) Obama's spiritual mentor of 20 years, Rev. J. Wright explained in an interview "that Barack Obama was steeped in Islam when he first met him," and said that he “made it comfortable” for Obama to accept Christianity without having renounce his Islamic background.” (something Obama was concerned about).

11) Obama selected Chuck Hagel – a former Republican senator “most sympathetic to Muslim positions in the Middle East” - to be Secretary of Defense despite intense objections by both political parties. The ‘Iranian State Press’ approved of his choice.

12) During a televised interview with George Stephanopoulos, whilst discussing whether John McCain's campaign has suggested that Obama is not a Christian, Obama committed a huge ‘faux pas’ when he said that:“John McCain had not talked about my Muslim faith” .Stephanopoulos, aware of this Freudian slip' and the potential outrage, then suggested that Obama change his answer to refer instead to "Christian faith."

13) In a recent speech on Islamic terrorism, Obama stated that: “ISIL is not 'Islamic.' No religion condones the killing of innocents, and the vast majority of ISIL's victims have been Muslim. And ISIL is certainly not a state; it was formerly al Qaeda's affiliate in Iraq and has taken advantage of sectarian strife and Syria's civil war to gain territory on both sides of the Iraq-Syrian border. It is recognized by no government nor by the people it subjugates."

14) “We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over the centuries to shape the world — including in my own country.”

15)“As a student of history, I also know civilisation’s debt to Islam.

16) “Islam has always been part of America”

17) “We will encourage more Americans to study in Muslim communities”.

18) “I made clear that America is not – and never will be – at war with Islam.”

19)“Islam is not part of the problem in combating violent extremism – it is an important part of promoting peace.”

20) “Throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality.” (His he for real???)

22)“Ramadan is a celebration of a faith known for great diversity and racial equality.

23) The Holy Koran tells us, ‘O mankind! We have created you male and a female; and we have made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another.’”

24)“I look forward to hosting an after dinner celebrating Ramadan here at the White House later this week, and wish you a blessed month.”

25)“That experience guides my conviction that partnership between America and Islam must be based on what Islam is, not what it isn’t. And I consider it part of my responsibility as president of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear.”

Transcript: President Obama's ISIS speech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-HqHSkYG-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CseUglupmZk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tKMiRxnRN4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaKeWwE0t7E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yro63c7B7A

Originally Posted by arista (Post 7579152)

Yes the President
is in his own world
upsetting the Americans
on CNBC , CNN America , CBS News
and FoxNewsHD

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7589933)

The christian god of the bible killed around 25 million in his book and of course happily watches 20,000 children die each day of the year from hunger

around 7.3 million a year or 730 million in the last 100 years

hi again kirk

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123 (Post 7590233)

If you think about it. Lets say that God created everything. In such a high position of authority why did he not make every human being and animal immortal. He had that option apparently but decided against it.:joker:

Originally Posted by letmein (Post 7590138)

Snopes is not your friend, hon.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

You copied and pasted most of this trash from Conservapedia, which is a far-Right Christian fundamentalist web site:

http://www.conservapedia.com/Obama's_Religion

Rational Wiki sums them up in a frank and funny way:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservapedia

You should also research Conservapedia's so-called sources. Stop being lazy.

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123 (Post 7590216)

And let's not forget that God who created everything but yet you don't hear those of faith talking about their god creating....
Rapists
murderers
cancer etc...

Why would a god or any god for that matter create such things?????
Additionally the world is flat and a man can survive 3 days at the bottom of the ocean inside a whale. Another man can part the ocean apparently.You can feed 5000 with only 5 fish too.
Talking snakes are also real. It's in the bible so it must be true?
Santa must be true too and we all know it ain't.:joker::joker::joker:

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 7588374)

yet you you appear to believe in clairvocancy with your absurd crystal ball predictions....so without the peaceful wondrous loving forgiving words of wisdom of Jesus the world will somehow be more peaceful , yeah right? so no one will fight over land power wealth oil control etc etc etc get a grip youre in fantasy land mate

Originally Posted by kirklancaster (Post 7590314)

You are merely trotting out the same old cliched rubbish which many others have done before you and though there are very serious answers to your questions, the mocking manner of your post tells me that investing the time and effort in answering you would not be worth the result.

I am disappointed Johnny.

Originally Posted by Kyle (Post 7590274)

Er excuse me, we were meant to be immortal before Eve decided to be a prat and eat from the tree of knowledge. So don't blame God for us not being immortal, blame those sneaky split arses :nono:

1 Timothy 2:14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.