German state bans Burka.
 

Im not sure if this subject has been debated previously, excuse me if it has.

As you all know France banned burka not a long ago and now the German state of Hesse has became the first region of the country to ban Muslin women from wearing burkas.

I've read this on:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...lim-anger.html

And judging by the comments I've read, it seems that most of readers wish the same would happen in the UK.

What's your opinion on that?

Of course it should be banned. Apparently it's unacceptable to offend an entire religion - but perfectly fine to oppress an entire gender.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/...50_233x319.jpg


its a start.

I think a ban could be Fun.

I think they are a symbol of oppression. Totally sexist and send out a disgusting message that shouldnt be tolerated in this country.

What are our children learning from seeing women dressed like this? Take your backwards culture back to your own backwards country.

Yeah this was debated at length here before lol. I would be totally against legalising against someones right to wear what they want, and someones right to express their religion how they want. Ironically it's normally feminists who want a ban, the ones who call for female liberation but then feel they should dictate to people what is and what isnt acceptable for woman to wear

:conf: You're either fishing here or you're really that obtuse. By your logic, women being required to cover themselves from head to foot is liberating them. The mind boggles....................................

I agree with this really. If it's the woman's choice to do so then she should be allowed to wear it. There's obviously some places where it shouldn't be worn though as they can be used to hide your identity so in those cases it should be treated like a hoody or something.

It's not about clothing. This garments sole purpose is to hide women away. Its offensive and demeaning to the female race.

Its not even a religious requirement. Even if it were I'd still be opposed.

And its damn creepy speaking to just a pair of eyes through a slit. Men wouldnt be allowed to go round in balaclavas. Certainly not in shops, airports etc.

Take a few minutes before you respond, but do you GENUINELY think it's EVER a woman's true choice, the wearing of a burkha? Really, now?

You've missed the point completely. He was essentially saying that if it's the woman's choice to wear a Burkha then by banning it you're stripping her of the liberty to wear what she wants. Not that the Burkha represents liberation, just that it's their choice to wear it or not.

I think in rare cases it isn't but more often then not it is. I don't agree with what the Burkha stands for but if someone chooses to wear it then that's their decision.

I'm going to assume you're a man, because I really don't think a woman could post the above and I also think it's a smashing illustration of the divide of understanding between the sexes. Women who are kicked in the head on a weekly basis stay in the same house as the men who do it. Do you think that's because they like it? And don't tell me it's an entirely different thing. It's exactly the same. The burkha is just the thin end of the wedge and, for some bizarre reason, an edge that's being ignored.

I'm not a feminist by the furthest stretch of the imagination but personally I believe the Burka symbolises oppression of women. I understand that their religion demands modesty, but to cover up every part of their body including their hair and head is just ridiculous in my opinion.

Oh stop with this whole utter disbelief act that you put on every time someone disagrees with you.

Like Dezzy said you missed the point, by banning the burka you are denying the woman to right to make a decision on this for herself, it's about the freedom to choose and not imposing your own narrow-minded views on other people

It's quite arrogant of you to presume that all woman are being forced to wear one as well, you cant legalise against something based on an irrational presumption. Maybe some do get forced to wear it, but many others do not.

It's only offensive and demeaning in your eyes though, in theirs it is a way of expressing their religion, a way of staying true to their faith.

A Bhurka is not a fashion statement. Lets be clear about that before we talk about choice.

would you be happy to see these women walk around with balls and chains round their ankles? just because they chose to?

It's not just about them. Its the message theyre sending out. We don't need children seeing women covered like that.

Yes it should be banned and all mosques shut, they would be opened again after we go through a 5 year period with no muslim sponsored terrorism

"then by banning it you're stripping her of the liberty to wear what she wants."



Yes Dezzy its wicked.

Sometimes I wish the wearing of the burka could be forced on some of the fuglies who come down from the hills where LT lives.

Yip,that's a good point.. I wouldn't like to have to explain to my children that another human being cannot let herself be seen unless in private in the company of her husband/family.

Yes that would be Funky

My gender doesn't matter and it's quite ironic that you've brought it into the discussion considering what it's about. Quite hypocritical.

I think you're argument is ridiculously stereotypical and overly emotional. Islam does not equal domestic abuse, I'm not saying that it doesn't exist I'm just saying it's wrong to tar an entire group of diverse people with the same brush. Some women WILL choose to wear the Burkha, some won't. The point I'm making is that it should be THEIR decision to choose either way, not anybody else's. You seem to think that I'm some mysogynistic man who's pro Burkha and I'm not. I don't like the connotations of it BUT I believe in Women having the liberty of making their own choices.

These women don't know what liberty is though.. They don't know any better and are never ever free to make their own choices. From birth they are merely know as a daughter of such and such or the wife of such and such.
Most have "masters" all their lives

BIB 1. How and why is that hypocritical. Of course it's an issue about gender and the oppression of women by men. What the hell else would it be about?
BIB 2. See now, that's just ridiculous. Where did I say that? Oppression equates to domestic violence. Of course it does. Try responding to what's written instead of what you'd like me to have written.
BIB 3. But they don't have that liberty. That's the problem.

Ah, well, that's OK then.......

But that goes back to the point about tarring all of them with the same brush, creating the image that all burkha wearers must really be oppressed females who have been forced to wear this garment and just havent realised it yet..

So going by the arguments against women wearing the burka because the nasty man of the house made them cover up, if the burka is banned doesnt it just mean same nasty man will keep the woman indoors and send young (as in of pre burka wearing age) girls out to do the shopping etc?

So by banning the burka we create domestic prisoners. An ideal solution to misogynistic religious practices.

Education not legislation.

these women do not choose to wear this from a neutral standpoint. They do so because its been drummed into them from birth that they should be hidden away.

well that message is abhorent and a civilised country should be intolerant towards it.

Can you start responding to the whole of posts please? Instead of just addressing one bolded line?

As I said directly before that bit, you are going by a presumption and a mass generalisation. You're basically saying that woman are not capable of making this decision for themselves and if they do make a choice to wear one, they must be oppressed, and been forced into doing so. Some Jews maybe get forced to wear the kippah by their parents, should that now be banned?

Yeah that's a good point

No, because it's not gender specific and it's not a direct reference to the demand for subservience from women.
Again, where, exactly, did I say that the women aren't "capable" of making the decision. Of course they're capable. They're societally oppressed, religiously oppressed and, sadly, oppressed by every male in their household. The wearing of a burkha is the surrender of the spirit, and I really feel sad and sorry for anyone who won't or can't see that.

To be honest.. to bring a girl up with the belief that she must cover herself from head to foot IS oppresion. Many aren't forced but just accept it, as this has always been their way. But whether they feel forced or wear one willingly or not, surely the whole thing just symbolises oppresion in it's purest form? something which , in our civilised world should not be encouraged?

The acceptance of a visual representation of gender oppression is a tacit nod of approval for that attitude and the practices associated with it.

There would be too much uproar in the UK if it happened. And would just give extremists an excuse for another attack,

Absolutely spot on.

Jews don't treat the female sex as something of lesser value than a man

Sadly, this is true. But it's a terrible thing that the rights of swathes of young girls have to be sacrificed to maintain what is already a very fragile peace.

and if we ban the Burkah then we could also ban trainers

I am not denying that.

But once again you havent addressed the point in quiestion. What happens if in some cases the head of the muslim household simply confines the female who would have been allowed out in a burqa to the house?

Well as long as it isn't affecting anyone else it doesn't matter really. It's easy to explain to a kid about it. If we tried to intervene or anything we'd only get abuse, so just let them get on with it.

It might not be gender exclusive but it is usually worn by Jewish men and not Jewish woman

And by banning the burkha clearly you are saying they are not capable of making the decision for themselves. You are trying to impose your views on other people, in a sense you are oppressing them by refusing to allow them to wear something they consider essential to their religion.

I dont think it's necessarily a symbol of repression and whether you do or do not is subjective really. A willing wearer of the burkha might think it brings them closer to God, and it is their way of expressing their faith. Personally I dont understand it but touching on the point of living in a civilised society, I think we should be tolerant and respectful of others beliefs. If it is considered of extreme importance to them then they can go ahead and wear it in my eyes.