[Chuck]

Im not sure if this subject has been debated previously, excuse me if it has.

As you all know France banned burka not a long ago and now the German state of Hesse has became the first region of the country to ban Muslin women from wearing burkas.

I've read this on:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...lim-anger.html

And judging by the comments I've read, it seems that most of readers wish the same would happen in the UK.

What's your opinion on that?

[patsylimerick]

Of course it should be banned. Apparently it's unacceptable to offend an entire religion - but perfectly fine to oppress an entire gender.

[arista]

its a start.

I think a ban could be Fun.

[Zippy]

I think they are a symbol of oppression. Totally sexist and send out a disgusting message that shouldnt be tolerated in this country.

What are our children learning from seeing women dressed like this? Take your backwards culture back to your own backwards country.

[MTVN]

Yeah this was debated at length here before lol. I would be totally against legalising against someones right to wear what they want, and someones right to express their religion how they want. Ironically it's normally feminists who want a ban, the ones who call for female liberation but then feel they should dictate to people what is and what isnt acceptable for woman to wear

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yeah this was debated at length here before lol. I would be totally against legalising against someones right to wear what they want, and someones right to express their religion how they want. Ironically it's normally feminists who want a ban, the ones who call for female liberation but then feel they should dictate to people what is and what isnt acceptable for woman to wear

You're either fishing here or you're really that obtuse. By your logic, women being required to cover themselves from head to foot is liberating them. The mind boggles....................................

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yeah this was debated at length here before lol. I would be totally against legalising against someones right to wear what they want, and someones right to express their religion how they want. Ironically it's normally feminists who want a ban, the ones who call for the liberation of woman but then feel they should dictate to people what is and what isnt acceptable clothing

I agree with this really. If it's the woman's choice to do so then she should be allowed to wear it. There's obviously some places where it shouldn't be worn though as they can be used to hide your identity so in those cases it should be treated like a hoody or something.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yeah this was debated at length here before lol. I would be totally against legalising against someones right to wear what they want, and someones right to express their religion how they want. Ironically it's normally feminists who want a ban, the ones who call for the liberation of woman but then feel they should dictate to people what is and what isnt acceptable for woman to wear

It's not about clothing. This garments sole purpose is to hide women away. Its offensive and demeaning to the female race.

Its not even a religious requirement. Even if it were I'd still be opposed.

And its damn creepy speaking to just a pair of eyes through a slit. Men wouldnt be allowed to go round in balaclavas. Certainly not in shops, airports etc.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I agree with this really. If it's the woman's choice to do so then she should be allowed to wear it. There's obviously some places where it shouldn't be worn though as they can be used to hide your identity so in those cases it should be treated like a hoody or something.

Take a few minutes before you respond, but do you GENUINELY think it's EVER a woman's true choice, the wearing of a burkha? Really, now?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

You're either fishing here or you're really that obtuse. By your logic, women being required to cover themselves from head to foot is liberating them. The mind boggles....................................

You've missed the point completely. He was essentially saying that if it's the woman's choice to wear a Burkha then by banning it you're stripping her of the liberty to wear what she wants. Not that the Burkha represents liberation, just that it's their choice to wear it or not.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Take a few minutes before you respond, but do you GENUINELY think it's EVER a woman's true choice, the wearing of a burkha? Really, now?

I think in rare cases it isn't but more often then not it is. I don't agree with what the Burkha stands for but if someone chooses to wear it then that's their decision.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You've missed the point completely. He was essentially saying that if it's the woman's choice to wear a Burkha then by banning it you're stripping her of the liberty to wear what she wants. Not that the Burkha represents liberation, just that it's their choice to wear it or not.

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I think in rare cases it isn't but more often then not it is. I don't agree with what the Burkha stands for but if someone chooses to wear it then that's their decision.

I'm going to assume you're a man, because I really don't think a woman could post the above and I also think it's a smashing illustration of the divide of understanding between the sexes. Women who are kicked in the head on a weekly basis stay in the same house as the men who do it. Do you think that's because they like it? And don't tell me it's an entirely different thing. It's exactly the same. The burkha is just the thin end of the wedge and, for some bizarre reason, an edge that's being ignored.

[Lee.]

I'm not a feminist by the furthest stretch of the imagination but personally I believe the Burka symbolises oppression of women. I understand that their religion demands modesty, but to cover up every part of their body including their hair and head is just ridiculous in my opinion.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

You're either fishing here or you're really that obtuse. By your logic, women being required to cover themselves from head to foot is liberating them. The mind boggles....................................

Oh stop with this whole utter disbelief act that you put on every time someone disagrees with you.

Like Dezzy said you missed the point, by banning the burka you are denying the woman to right to make a decision on this for herself, it's about the freedom to choose and not imposing your own narrow-minded views on other people

It's quite arrogant of you to presume that all woman are being forced to wear one as well, you cant legalise against something based on an irrational presumption. Maybe some do get forced to wear it, but many others do not.

Originally Posted by Zippy

It's not about clothing. This garments sole purpose is to hide women away. Its offensive and demeaning to the female race.

Its not even a religious requirement. Even if it were I'd still be opposed.

And its damn creepy speaking to just a pair of eyes through a slit. Men wouldnt be allowed to go round in balaclavas. Certainly not in shops, airports etc.

It's only offensive and demeaning in your eyes though, in theirs it is a way of expressing their religion, a way of staying true to their faith.

[Zippy]

A Bhurka is not a fashion statement. Lets be clear about that before we talk about choice.

would you be happy to see these women walk around with balls and chains round their ankles? just because they chose to?

It's not just about them. Its the message theyre sending out. We don't need children seeing women covered like that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes it should be banned and all mosques shut, they would be opened again after we go through a 5 year period with no muslim sponsored terrorism

[arista]

"then by banning it you're stripping her of the liberty to wear what she wants."



Yes Dezzy its wicked.

[Shasown]

Sometimes I wish the wearing of the burka could be forced on some of the fuglies who come down from the hills where LT lives.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

A Bhurka is not a fashion statement. Lets be clear about that before we talk about choice.

would you be happy to see these women walk around with balls and chains round their ankles? just because they chose to?

It's not just about them. Its the message theyre sending out. We don't need children seeing women covered like that.

Yip,that's a good point.. I wouldn't like to have to explain to my children that another human being cannot let herself be seen unless in private in the company of her husband/family.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Sometimes I wish the wearing of the burka could be forced on some of the fuglies who come down from the hills where LT lives.

Yes that would be Funky

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

I'm going to assume you're a man, because I really don't think a woman could post the above and I also think it's a smashing illustration of the divide of understanding between the sexes. Women who are kicked in the head on a weekly basis stay in the same house as the men who do it. Do you think that's because they like it? And don't tell me it's an entirely different thing. It's exactly the same. The burkha is just the thin end of the wedge and, for some bizarre reason, an edge that's being ignored.

My gender doesn't matter and it's quite ironic that you've brought it into the discussion considering what it's about. Quite hypocritical.

I think you're argument is ridiculously stereotypical and overly emotional. Islam does not equal domestic abuse, I'm not saying that it doesn't exist I'm just saying it's wrong to tar an entire group of diverse people with the same brush. Some women WILL choose to wear the Burkha, some won't. The point I'm making is that it should be THEIR decision to choose either way, not anybody else's. You seem to think that I'm some mysogynistic man who's pro Burkha and I'm not. I don't like the connotations of it BUT I believe in Women having the liberty of making their own choices.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

My gender doesn't matter and it's quite ironic that you've brought it into the discussion considering what it's about. Quite hypocritical.

I think you're argument is ridiculously stereotypical and overly emotional. Islam does not equal domestic abuse, I'm not saying that it doesn't exist I'm just saying it's wrong to tar an entire group of diverse people with the same brush. Some women WILL choose to wear the Burkha, some won't. The point I'm making is that it should be THEIR decision to choose either way, not anybody else's. You seem to think that I'm some mysogynistic man who's pro Burkha and I'm not. I don't like the connotations of it BUT I believe in Women having the liberty of making their own choices.

These women don't know what liberty is though.. They don't know any better and are never ever free to make their own choices. From birth they are merely know as a daughter of such and such or the wife of such and such.
Most have "masters" all their lives

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

My gender doesn't matter and it's quite ironic that you've brought it into the discussion considering what it's about. Quite hypocritical.

I think you're argument is ridiculously stereotypical and overly emotional. Islam does not equal domestic abuse, I'm not saying that it doesn't exist I'm just saying it's wrong to tar an entire group of diverse people with the same brush.
The point I'm making is that it should be THEIR decision to choose either way, not anybody else's. You seem to think that I'm some mysogynistic man who's pro Burkha and I'm not. I don't like the connotations of it BUT I believe in Women having the liberty of making their own choices.

BIB 1. How and why is that hypocritical. Of course it's an issue about gender and the oppression of women by men. What the hell else would it be about?
BIB 2. See now, that's just ridiculous. Where did I say that? Oppression equates to domestic violence. Of course it does. Try responding to what's written instead of what you'd like me to have written.
BIB 3. But they don't have that liberty. That's the problem.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Oh stop with this whole utter disbelief act that you put on every time someone disagrees with you.

Like Dezzy said you missed the point, by banning the burka you are denying the woman to right to make a decision on this for herself, it's about the freedom to choose and not imposing your own narrow-minded views on other people

It's quite arrogant of you to presume that all woman are being forced to wear one as well, you cant legalise against something based on an irrational presumption. Maybe some do get forced to wear it, but many others do not.
It's only offensive and demeaning in your eyes though, in theirs it is a way of expressing their religion, a way of staying true to their faith.

Ah, well, that's OK then.......

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by happyland

These women don't know what liberty is though.. They don't know any better and are never ever free to make their own choices. From birth they are merely know as a daughter of such and such or the wife of such and such.
Most have "masters" all their lives

But that goes back to the point about tarring all of them with the same brush, creating the image that all burkha wearers must really be oppressed females who have been forced to wear this garment and just havent realised it yet..