Brillos EU/Brexit thread
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40972776

Yet more good news for Brexit.

Well it's nice to know that they're impartial :joker:

They are also economists so maybe, just maybe they are pro-Brexit because they can see the benefits in a way Joe Public can't. They are better informed. Besides it always works both ways.

The economy is in the toilet because of brexit, how is this more good news? There hasn't been any good news yet

Think I'll take the words of an informed economist over that of a fear driven remainer thanks.

You'll take the word of an economist if it's one of the few that is saying that Brexit is a shining star. If it's one of the DOZENS of economists who have stated how disastrous Brexit has been / will be, you're happy to ignore them and bleat that the "public has spoken!". Snooze.

Just to echo my comment above really. You are happy to ignore the economists and financial experts who believe that Brexit will be hugely damaging to the economy... and fall back on the Joe Public vote.

Whatever suits your argument at the time eh Brillo?

And that doesn't work both ways then?

I choose to believe the positivity of these economists because I agree with them. You choose to believe the negativity of other economists because you agree with them. The difference is? :shrug:

Ignorance is bliss I guess

Says the so-called expert. It is indeed. Enjoy!

I don't believe anyone but myself, Brillo :hee:. I'm well aware that everyone has an agenda, that's why you don't find me posting links or articles for either "side".

You choose to believe the articles you do because you already agree with them. You choose to ignore the "negative" articles because you already disagree with them. What you're describing there is called "confirmation bias", and it doesn't really do anyone any good.

And no I'm not saying it's just Brexit Buddies who do that, ProEuerers do it too.

Tbh I don't really have a side on Brexit any more. I think it's very naive to think that the economy will do well with Brexit. But then, I also sort of think the EU is ****ed anyway. And sort of the whole western world. Because in the 80's everyone put their eggs in one neoliberal basket and 30 years later, neoliberalism is failing.

So Brexit, no Brexit, whatever, I don't think it makes much difference. The economy is going to suffer for a long time either way.

How's that for some positivity :joker:.


My only real hope is that Scottish Indy does happen because I believe that small scale economies of less than 10 million people are far more able to support normal citizens in times of economic hardship than larger 50+ million economies, which foster elitism and leave everyone else behind.

Where did I say I was an expert? :laugh2: stop embarrassing yourself

You constantly keep implying you know best - It is an opinion nothing more.

The difference in opinions between the experts demonstrates that no-one knows anything as fact and that all 'forecasts' are based on the 'opinions' of the experts. No-one can say with any certainty that one group of experts know better than the other - as usual it comes down to opinions not facts.

Please quit the playground tactics - you are wasting your time.

I appreciate your honest post. We none of us know, we can only speculate based on our own opinions and that of those we choose to believe.

If you truly believe this, though, then why say:

?

Surely you should be saying something like, "Another encouraging opinion about Brexit". Because as you say, it isn't news, it isn't something that has happened yet. At this point it's just speculation and - as you have said - speculation goes both ways so is largely meaningless. The only thing that will be "news" (good or bad) are the real facts and figures post-Brexit in a few years time. As things stand currently, the pound has taken a massive blow and has yet to recover at all. It MAY recover. It may go on to thrive again. Until something actually changes though, there is no "news".

Because so many pretend to 'know' what is going to happen with Brexit based on their opinions. People present these opinions as fact when actually they are not and I guess I counteract this by doing the same. They don't like it either.

Yes I could put it better, couldn't we all, but often irritations and annoyance get in the way. Human nature tends to lead us to respond to like with like. No it isn't helpful but if that is the template set out it gets to become the norm.

Fair. And a pretty succinct summing up of TiBB Serious Debates & News :joker:.

The economy isn't in the toilet and Brexit hasn't happened yet we are still in the EU.

This is good news. I've always favoured a so called hard Brexit perhaps we should just get on with it. (ie leaving the EU rather than clinging to bits of it).

Minford is being heavily criticized by other economists. I'm going to read up on this later because it has to be read and understood from all sides.

Experts' opinions only matter to leavers if they are telling them what they want to hear.

Remember Gove during the Brexit campaign telling people to ignore the legions of economists from across the board saying that Brexit was a bad idea?

And that is exactly the same when it's those who want to remain so what's the point of saying it like it's something unique, everyone on here is attracted to news that supports their perspective.

You actually think anyone listens to Michael Gove except maybe his mum? :laugh:

He's the biggest pillock going - so try again if you must. :shrug:

I always heed what people with vastly more knowledge than me on a subject have to say. Gove's words obviously had an effect because I remember a lot of Leave voters on here basically echoing his words and doing their best to discredit what mass amounts of experts had to say because it wasn't what they wanted to hear.

If basically all the economic experts with all their different agendas, lifestyles, thoughts and opinions are alligned by saying that Brexit is a bad idea then you listen.

Yeah the thing with economists is they're usually either wrong or blind.They predict things off the mark or don't predict them at all.
We probably won't know until we're out for a few years.The good thing is that all the doom and gloom predicted immediate post Brexit vote didn't unfold.

What Prof Minford says

But Prof Minford said: “’Hard Brexit’ is good for the UK economically while ‘soft Brexit’ leaves us as badly off as before. ‘Hard’ is economically much superior to ‘soft’.

“Backers of ‘Soft Brexit’ say it would preserve jobs, but what they really mean is that it would preserve existing jobs by stopping competition from home and abroad.

“As every schoolboy knows and every politician ought to know, this aborting of competition reduces jobs in the long run.

“Competition increases productivity and so employment because higher wages paid for by higher productivity makes work more attractive.

“Competition also increases our general welfare because we are producing more.

What the critics say

Commenting on behalf of the Open Britain campaign group for close ties with the EU, Labour MP Alison McGovern said: “All anyone needs to know about this absurd plan is that its own author admits it would ‘mostly eliminate manufacturing’ in the UK.

“Unilaterally scrapping our tariffs without achieving similar reductions in the tariff rates of other countries would see Britain swamped with imports, leaving our manufacturers and farmers unable to compete.

“The levels of bankruptcy and unemployment, especially in industry and agriculture, would sky-rocket.

“This is a project of economic suicide, not prosperity. No responsible government would touch this report with a barge pole as a source of ideas for our future trade policy.”

Prof Minford put forward his ideas in the run-up to June 2016’s EU referendum, although he admitted in a column for the Sun: “Over time, if we left the EU, it seems likely that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing, leaving mainly industries such as design, marketing and hi-tech. But this shouldn’t scare us.”

What economists think will happen to your spending power, your job and your house price while Brexit is negotiated

Then why not put a question mark at the end of the title. Your header implies its factual, not speculative.

Hard brexit isn't scary.....tory brexit is scary.

You were anti-Brexit fullstop, especially a hard Brexit. Now you are changing your stance knowing that Corbyn's Brexit will be a hard one. How convenient.

Your 'principles' change to suit! You support a hard left politician just admit it.

I was anti brexit, know what changed my mind? TTIP. I feel tory brexit will be TTIP on acid. Hard or soft was never my issue, my focus was on maintaining rights, protections and standards.

I support a politician who has vowed to do that, not sure why you are so affronted by this.
Maybe I should just be as steadfastly blinkered as yourself? god forbid you rethink your opinion on anything :laugh:

There's nothing wrong with someone changing their opinion, it's the reason why that counts. It just comes across as more of a forced decision rather than one that is in keeping with your expressed views.

Are you stalking me?...

I just gave you a reason, and they correspond directly to my expressed views...
My explicit concern from the off was civil rights and protections.

Just responding to your post. Don't know where the stalking comment comes from. :puzzled:

I gave you a valid response to your query and you are still challenging my views on the subject, I'm wondering what the issue is?

I'm not challenging them. I've said my piece. There is no issue.

The EU has failed in its attempted enforcement of mass migration into Europe
 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...a-Merkel-Italy

What happens next I wonder. Even Macron has been forced to eat his words.

I think that was clear almost from the beginning. What worries me is what is happening to all these people being deported to Turkey. The president of Turkey is easing his way into a dictatorship and is a dodgy guy. The EU just seem to want to get rid of the refugee s now and don't seem to feel any moral responsibility toeards them. I suspect a scandal is coming re the fate of these people being deported.

And why aren't they doing more to support the countries where migrants are crossing into Europe. This is Merkel's cock up, she told them all to come but nothing is being done for the countries having to deal with the brunt of numbers.

There is an election coming up in Germany - lets hope they finally get rid of her. She has caused chaos in Europe with poorly thought through policies that have had a negative impact on so many.

The borders should have been fully defended from the beginning tbh

The beginning of time? :worry: