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-   -   Esther Rantzen, the Daily Mail and some politicians are upset over a video game (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=331666)

Tom4784 04-12-2017 03:41 PM

Esther Rantzen, the Daily Mail and some politicians are upset over a video game
 
Quote:

'Abusers will get off on this stuff': Sony under fire for 'repulsive' video game Detroit: Become Human which shows girl, 10, 'beaten to death by her father' among a host of child abuse and domestic violence acts players watch
Set in ‘near-future’ in Detroit, game features androids, including housekeeper Kara - controlled by the player
Kara works for abusive father Todd, who has a young daughter Alice, whom he blames for marriage break-up
In one scene, Alice says, 'He's going to hurt me'; she runs upstairs as Todd follows, saying, 'Daddy's very mad'
Childline founder Dame Esther Rantzen urged publisher to remove child abuse scene or withdraw PS4 game

A video game depicting child abuse and domestic violence was condemned as ‘repulsive’ last night by MPs and campaigners.

In one harrowing scene, a girl aged about ten is heard screaming as her father apparently beats her to death in her bedroom.

Elsewhere, she says: ‘He’s coming, he’s going to hurt me.’ In another sequence, the child runs upstairs trailed menacingly by her belt-wielding father who shouts: ‘Alice, Daddy’s very mad.’

The multi-million pound game, Detroit: Become Human, is likely to be a hit when launched next year by Japanese games giant Sony. It is already available to pre-order on Amazon for £46.

Childline founder Dame Esther Rantzen called the game – made for the PlayStation 4 console – ‘sick and repulsive’.

She urged publisher Sony Interactive Entertainment to either remove the child abuse scene or withdraw the game.

Dame Esther told The Mail on Sunday: ‘Violence against children is not entertainment. It’s not a game. It’s a real nightmare for thousands of children who have to live through these kinds of scenarios. The makers of this game should be thoroughly ashamed. I think it’s perverse. Who thinks beating a child is entertainment?’

Andy Burrows, of the NSPCC, added: ‘Any video game that trivialises or normalises child abuse, neglect or domestic violence for entertainment is unacceptable.’

But the man who wrote and directed the game tried to deflect the criticism of the abuse scene by describing it as ‘very strong and moving’.

Set in the ‘near-future’ in the US city Detroit, the game features lifelike androids which have become part of society.

Players take on the role of one of them, cyborg housekeeper Kara, and can decide how the story unfolds by making choices with their controllers, prompted by options flashing up on screen.

Kara goes to work for Todd, an abusive father, who orders her to clean the house and look after his daughter Alice. The storyline soon takes a dark turn with Todd exploding with rage over dinner and blaming his daughter for the break-up of his marriage.

Throwing the dining table at the wall, he screams at Alice: ‘Maybe you think this is easy, maybe you think it’s my fault your ********** mother took off. ********** ***** walked out on me for a ********** accountant.’

It is at this point that a petrified Alice runs upstairs.

Screams are then heard before Todd lays Alice’s lifeless body on the bed saying: ‘It’s all over now, Daddy isn’t angry any more.’

He then turns on Kara and screams: ‘This is all your fault.’

By choosing from a variety of options, the game offers players the chance to prevent Alice’s apparent death. Kara can run upstairs with the girl, for instance, or lock a door or try to reason with Todd. Each option has different outcomes.

In one, Kara is punched in the face by Todd. In another, Alice picks up her father’s gun and shoots him in the back to stop him beating Kara. Earlier, the android examines a picture apparently drawn by Alice showing a maid with her arm broken off, suggesting Todd has a history of abuse. In another clip, Todd screams at Kara: ‘She [Alice] is mine. I do what I want with her,’ Then he strikes the android in the face as his daughter looks on.

Detroit: Become Human is not the first game to spark controversy. The Grand Theft Auto series of video games – in which players roam around cities stealing cars and killing – have routinely been criticised for gratuitous depictions of graphic sex, violence and drug use.

In 2005, one version of the game, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, caused outrage after it emerged that it contained secret sex scenes that players could unlock.

The NSPCC’s Mr Burrows said research has shown that ‘children and young people often play 18+ games before they reach this age’.

And Peter Saunders, founder of the National Association of People Abused in Childhood, said: ‘Abusers will get off on this stuff and the other thing we know beyond question is that videos games end up being played by children and, scarily, the proliferation of salacious and abusive images is actually encouraging violence and abuse.

Detroit: Become Human is not the first game to spark controversy. In 2005, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas caused outrage after it emerged that it contained secret sex scenes that players could unlock +5
Detroit: Become Human is not the first game to spark controversy. In 2005, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas caused outrage after it emerged that it contained secret sex scenes that players could unlock

‘And we know that abuse in all its forms is escalating on this planet so why not help to tackle it constructively rather than sensationalise and make money out if it?’

Tory MP Damian Collins, Chairman of the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee, said: ‘It is completely wrong for domestic violence to be part of a video game regardless of what the motivation is. Domestic violence is not a game and this simply trivialises it. I worry that people who play this who themselves have suffered abuse will use this game to shape the way in which they deal with abusers.

‘It’s dangerous to plant the seed in people’s minds that the way to deal with abusers is to use violence against them. It’s counter-productive and could put them in even more danger.’

The game has been developed by French firm Quantic Dream. One of their previous adventure games, Heavy Rain, cost £35 million to develop and market and ended up banking Sony more than £88 million.

Last night Quantic did not respond to requests by The Mail on Sunday for comment. David Cage, who wrote and directed the game, has defended it. He told an interviewer: ‘If you look really into the game and if you play it you’ll understand that the game is not about domestic abuse. It’s a part of Kara’s [the android’s] story – she’s not a victim and she has a beautiful story. Hopefully you will be moved by what happens.’

Asked about the abuse scene, Mr Cage said: ‘For me it’s a very strong and moving scene, and I was interested to put the player in the position of this woman. I chose her point of view.’ He added: ‘What’s important to me, and what’s important in Detroit is to say that a game is as legitimate as a film or a book or a play to explore any topic such as domestic abuse.’

But Children’s Commissioner for England, Anne Longfield, said that whatever the makers’ motivations ‘it seems to end up in a clumsy, inappropriate and graphic game play that is no more than an unpleasant exploitative way of making money off the back of real suffering’.

Last night, The Video Standards Council, which is responsible for deciding computer game age ratings, refused to say whether or not they would grant it a classification and allow the game to be released.

A spokesman said: ‘Any decision to refuse a certificate is not taken lightly and to the extent we consider necessary we are able to consult our advisory panel of leading psychologists and legal experts.’

Sony Interactive Entertainment declined to comment.

ESTHER RANTZEN: This isn't just savage - it's highly dangerous
'Criminals who attack children often create similar fantasies in their imaginations before they act them out. Such a criminal would regard this game as a validation,' says Esther Rantzen +5
'Criminals who attack children often create similar fantasies in their imaginations before they act them out. Such a criminal would regard this game as a validation,' says Esther Rantzen

There was a time – more cruel and less civilised than ours – when public executions were enjoyed as entertainment.

In those savage days, crowds watched old women being drowned as witches and animals tortured for fun.

But I’ve never heard of little girls being beaten with a belt as part of a game. That, in my view, is not just savage, it’s seriously damaging.

Who would play such a game for fun? People who are impervious to the suffering of children.

At Childline I have listened to the voices of beaten children.

I remember a paediatrician telling me of a child whose body carried the scars of dozens of ferocious beatings with a belt.

How could anyone even contemplate creating a video game with that as a ‘fun’ element in it?

Then there is the added danger that a child might play this hideous game – perhaps a child who lives with violence, who has been beaten or watched parents physically fighting.

How many nightmares will this game provoke?

Criminals who attack children often create similar fantasies in their imaginations before they act them out. Such a criminal would regard this game as a validation.

The designers of video games have a duty to protect children, and that responsibility extends to protecting virtual children.

We never want anyone to believe that beating a child to death with a belt is the stuff of entertainment. It should never be trivialised or turned into a game.

I call upon Sony Interactive Entertainment to think again and withdraw this game, or at least remove this scene where a virtual child is put in life-threatening danger. If you don’t, real children may suffer.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...repulsive.html
The trailer for the context that these stupid politicians and Esther Rantzen seemed to miss out on.



Bit of a continuation from another topic I made a while back.

It bothers me that people will take issue with this game (which, you can tell from the trailer neither glamorises or normalises abuse) yet they'll happily sit around with their families and watch Bethany from Corrie getting sexually abused for almost a year with nary a peep. Games can tackle issues just as well as TV shows can, as games become more cinematic, the gap between narratives of games and traditional mediums like Film and TV are becoming smaller.

I also dislike the whole 'protect our children from EVIL video games!' angle it took with the mention that most children play violent video games before they are old enough to buy them but that's surely the fault of the parents? Most games cost around £30-60 so it's not likely these kids are buying them themselves and even if they are, a kid won't be sold something like GTA unless an adult buys it for them. If a parent can't be bothered to notice the massive age ratings on the game boxes when they buy them then that's their fault that they are buying games meant for older audiences. It's up to parents to pay attention to what they are buying their kids to decide whether or not their children are mature enough to play games meant for an older audience.

Ultimately though, these idiot people speaking out really need to understand the context before they condemn something they were likely told about and probably haven't even seen for themselves.

arista 04-12-2017 03:44 PM

Yes was debated on Ch5HD Live Am
its a 18 Game.

No one views the death of the child.

Its more about the Police Android female assistant.

Its out in 4 weeks or so..............

bots 04-12-2017 03:51 PM

there is worse than this on the TV all the time. One particular series that comes to mind was 24 where they had a kid being abused by her father. If we just hide it away and pretend it doesn't exist, how can kids prepare themselves for the big wide world

arista 04-12-2017 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide (Post 9722758)
there is worse than this on the TV all the time. One particular series that comes to mind was 24 where they had a kid being abused by her father. If we just hide it away and pretend it doesn't exist, how can kids prepare themselves for the big wide world

Yes and Film
that what the makers say.......................


Ref : Ch5HD AM Live debate.

Crimson Dynamo 04-12-2017 03:55 PM

'Abusers will get off on this stuff'

https://media.giphy.com/media/PcoTAxTZeqBrO/giphy.gif

arista 04-12-2017 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14 (Post 9722764)
'Abusers will get off on this stuff'

https://media.giphy.com/media/PcoTAxTZeqBrO/giphy.gif


As they do on Films..........................

Crimson Dynamo 04-12-2017 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 9722777)
As they do on Films..........................

they wont be shelling out 44 squid on a game for a cut scene

that is for sure

Vicky. 04-12-2017 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9722743)

It bothers me that people will take issue with this game (which, you can tell from the trailer neither glamorises or normalises abuse) yet they'll happily sit around with their families and watch Bethany from Corrie getting sexually abused for almost a year with nary a peep. Games can tackle issues just as well as TV shows can, as games become more cinematic, the gap between narratives of games and traditional mediums like Film and TV are becoming smaller.

Well yes, quite. I don't know what else to say on this to be quite honest.

Oliver_W 04-12-2017 05:18 PM

Unless the game has a level where you actually control the abuser, the people moaning about this must have the brain power and analytical skills of Anita Sarkeesian. It's clearly not showing the actions in a good light.

user104658 04-12-2017 06:11 PM

The story here is basically "77 year old woman doesn't understand what modern video games are and gets very angry about stuff".

Backed up by others from another time / generation. They "get it" when it's movies, or TV, but to them, games are "things like Mario" that are a bit of lighthearted fun... Therefore, if there's abuse in a game, it must be for the sake of lighthearted fun.

Meh. They'll die off soon enough :shrug:.

Kizzy 04-12-2017 06:51 PM

And people say desensitisation isn't a 'thing'...

Jamie89 04-12-2017 06:56 PM


Brillopad 04-12-2017 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Santa (Post 9722942)
The story here is basically "77 year old woman doesn't understand what modern video games are and gets very angry about stuff".

Backed up by others from another time / generation. They "get it" when it's movies, or TV, but to them, games are "things like Mario" that are a bit of lighthearted fun... Therefore, if there's abuse in a game, it must be for the sake of lighthearted fun.

Meh. They'll die off soon enough :shrug:.

It won’t be long before people are saying that about those currently in their 30s. 35 is after-all official middle age. Best not wish your life away.

Kizzy 04-12-2017 07:24 PM

'Modern' video games are about the normalisation of violence and/ or abuse, mocking those who highlight this as a issue reiterates my point.

user104658 04-12-2017 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9723060)
It won’t be long before people are saying that about those currently in their 30s. 35 is after-all official middle age. Best not wish your life away.

:shrug: If I ever start to be ignorant and judgemental of things that younger generations enjoy that I don't understand, then I expect they'll be happy to see me go too.

user104658 04-12-2017 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza (Post 9723072)
'Modern' video games are about the normalisation of violence and/ or abuse, mocking those who highlight this as a issue reiterates my point.

They aren't, and it's not really wise to pass judgement on things that you have no experience of, and don't engage in yourself. All you're doing here is parroting what you've read elsewhere.

Kizzy 04-12-2017 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Santa (Post 9723080)
They aren't, and it's not really wise to pass judgement on things that you have no experience of, and don't engage in yourself. All you're doing here is parroting what you've read elsewhere.

You're passing judgement on this '77yr old woman' ... Why are you presuming she has no experience, you're coming across as both ageist and sexist, why shouldn't she or myself have a say on this topic?

What a strange controlling thing to state, you are effectively standing atop your soapbox and denying her an opinion.

There are several things I don't have direct experience of, mass murder, fondue, being a boxing champion... it doesn't stop me having an opinion on them.
To be fair to Esther she has worked with childline for decades I don't know how you can say isn't qualified to comment on this distasteful virtual voyerism dressed up as 'entertainment' ... It's very odd.

Brillopad 04-12-2017 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza (Post 9723141)
You're passing judgement on this '77yr old woman' ... Why are you presuming she has no experience, you're coming across as both ageist and sexist, why shouldn't she or myself have a say on this topic?

What a strange controlling thing to state, you are effectively standing atop your soapbox and denying her an opinion.

There are several things I don't have direct experience of, mass murder, fondue, being a boxing champion... it doesn't stop me having an opinion on them.
To be fair to Esther she has worked with childline for decades I don't know how you can say isn't qualified to comment on this distasteful virtual voyerism dressed up as 'entertainment' ... It's very odd.

Agree on this.

user104658 04-12-2017 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza (Post 9723141)
You're passing judgement on this '77yr old woman' ... Why are you presuming she has no experience, you're coming across as both ageist and sexist, why shouldn't she or myself have a say on this topic?

What a strange controlling thing to state, you are effectively standing atop your soapbox and denying her an opinion.

There are several things I don't have direct experience of, mass murder, fondue, being a boxing champion... it doesn't stop me having an opinion on them.
To be fair to Esther she has worked with childline for decades I don't know how you can say isn't qualified to comment on this distasteful virtual voyerism dressed up as 'entertainment' ... It's very odd.

I very much doubt that she, or you, have ever extensively played a modern narrative-driven video game and so no... she isn't qualified to comment on what it is or what effect it has. Of course she's entitled to her opinion on it - as are you - but the fact is, because she demonstrably has absolutely zero idea what she's talking about, having never taken part in this form of media in ANY way let alone this specific example, her archaic opinion on it is worth precisely sh*t. Which is fitting - as she appears to have pulled it out of her arse.

Jamie89 04-12-2017 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza (Post 9723141)
You're passing judgement on this '77yr old woman' ... Why are you presuming she has no experience, you're coming across as both ageist and sexist, why shouldn't she or myself have a say on this topic?

What a strange controlling thing to state, you are effectively standing atop your soapbox and denying her an opinion.

There are several things I don't have direct experience of, mass murder, fondue, being a boxing champion... it doesn't stop me having an opinion on them.
To be fair to Esther she has worked with childline for decades I don't know how you can say isn't qualified to comment on this distasteful virtual voyerism dressed up as 'entertainment' ... It's very odd.

It's not just commenting on what's in the games though, it's commenting on the effect the games have on people playing them, isn't it? If you haven't played them how can you know what effect they have?
And if the issue isn't that it might have an effect on people and just that it's distasteful, then could the same not be said about a lot of films and TV shows and that they also shouldn't show topics like child abuse or any kind of violence at all in the name of entertainment?
Does entertainment have to be PG? Can it not provoke thought about issues and contain adult themes? And why is it one rule for one form of entertainment and another for something else?

Withano 04-12-2017 08:30 PM

The game to me, looks like a pretty valuable lesson in the things you can do to stop an abusive parent, and ultimately save a childs life?.. If anyone has a problem with that, I'd argue that they're more of a problem than the game by miles.

user104658 04-12-2017 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie89 (Post 9723186)
It's not just commenting on what's in the games though, it's commenting on the effect the games have on people playing them, isn't it? If you haven't played them how can you know what effect they have?
And if the issue isn't that it might have an effect on people and just that it's distasteful, then could the same not be said about a lot of films and TV shows and that they also shouldn't show topics like child abuse or any kind of violence at all in the name of entertainment?
Does entertainment have to be PG? Can it not provoke thought about issues and contain adult themes? And why is it one rule for one form of entertainment and another for something else?

The rule of thumb is "if it didn't exist when I was a young'un, it is strange and corrupting our youth!"

See... 70 years ago, the older generations DID believe this sort of rabid, reactionary nonsense about cinema. 50 years ago, they believed it about television. Today, it's video games and / or sometimes "The Internet" that is the "terrible demon amongst us". I wasn't being flippant when I said this older generation will die off soon enough and people will forget that gaming was ever demonized as being any different to television or movies... that is exactly what will happen.

user104658 04-12-2017 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 9723192)
The game to me, looks like a pretty valuable lesson in the things you can do to stop an abusive parent, and ultimately save a childs life?.. If anyone has a problem with that, I'd argue that they're more of a problem than the game by miles.

I'd be very, very surprised if she's even seen the game footage or read anything about the actual content tbqfh. Someone has said to her "Hey Esther - this game has a scene in it that features child abuse!" and she has instantly gone off on one, no doubt imagining a 2D sprite of a bearded leather-bound thug beating up a child whilst a 9 year old hammers on a SNES controller and cackles.

Brillopad 04-12-2017 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 9723192)
The game to me, looks like a pretty valuable lesson in the things you can do to stop an abusive parent, and ultimately save a childs life?.. If anyone has a problem with that, I'd argue that they're more of a problem than the game by miles.

You would.

Kizzy 04-12-2017 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Santa (Post 9723182)
I very much doubt that she, or you, have ever extensively played a modern narrative-driven video game and so no... she isn't qualified to comment on what it is or what effect it has. Of course she's entitled to her opinion on it - as are you - but the fact is, because she demonstrably has absolutely zero idea what she's talking about, having never taken part in this form of media in ANY way let alone this specific example, her archaic opinion on it is worth precisely sh*t. Which is fitting - as she appears to have pulled it out of her arse.

So you can only comment on things you have extensive experience of?

I will be looking forward to you deleting 100s of comments specifically applicable to women then..
What an unjustified, aggressive and unpleasant response.

She is entitled to an opinion on this topic, as am I ... I am shocked at the voracity of your reaction and more than a little concerned if I'm honest.

Withano 04-12-2017 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9723213)
You would.

Why wouldnt you(?) anyone(?) not want a game which visually explains the precautions a person could take to stop a child from dying at the hands of their abusive parent to exist. Literally please give one reason or shut up.

user104658 04-12-2017 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza (Post 9723214)
So you can only comment on things you have extensive experience of?

I will be looking forward to you deleting 100s of comments specifically applicable to women then..
What an unjustified, aggressive and unpleasant response.

She is entitled to an opinion on this topic, as am I ... I am shocked at the voracity of your reaction and more than a little concerned if I'm honest.

I didn't say she needs to have extensive experience of it. I said she doesn't have ANY experience of it.

I also said she's entitled to her opinion. I'm only pointing out that her opinion is ignorant, archaic, uninformed, reactionary nonsense. In my opinion, of course.

Brillopad 04-12-2017 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 9723216)
Why wouldnt you(?) anyone(?) not want a game which visually explains the precautions a person could take to stop a child from dying at the hands of their abusive parent to exist. Literally please give one reason or shut up.

:pat:

Withano 04-12-2017 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9723226)
:pat:

I would never pat you on the head no offence

Jamie89 04-12-2017 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Santa (Post 9723205)
The rule of thumb is "if it didn't exist when I was a young'un, it is strange and corrupting our youth!"

See... 70 years ago, the older generations DID believe this sort of rabid, reactionary nonsense about cinema. 50 years ago, they believed it about television. Today, it's video games and / or sometimes "The Internet" that is the "terrible demon amongst us". I wasn't being flippant when I said this older generation will die off soon enough and people will forget that gaming was ever demonized as being any different to television or movies... that is exactly what will happen.

Yeah I think there's a lot of truth in that. Even saying that though video game violence isn't even that much of a new thing anyway (maybe new in the sense that much older people might not be too aware of it, but not so new that we can't tell whether or not there is an impact). I was playing games as a kid on the N64 where I'd shoot and stab people :laugh: and I'm not a violent person in the slightest. And however more realistic games are these days to say 20 years ago, they're still not as realistic as TV and film.

Kizzy 04-12-2017 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie89 (Post 9723186)
It's not just commenting on what's in the games though, it's commenting on the effect the games have on people playing them, isn't it? If you haven't played them how can you know what effect they have?
And if the issue isn't that it might have an effect on people and just that it's distasteful, then could the same not be said about a lot of films and TV shows and that they also shouldn't show topics like child abuse or any kind of violence at all in the name of entertainment?
Does entertainment have to be PG? Can it not provoke thought about issues and contain adult themes? And why is it one rule for one form of entertainment and another for something else?

It is yes, and I would feel exactly the same way about films that have this type of content.

My feeling is what mindset calls watching 'playing' something like this 'entertainment'? You have touched upon you it repulses me there, the sight sound and overall control of what happens to a virtual child is 'enjoyable' it's entertaining' you might think I'm oversensitive... think that this appeals to the undersensitive.. it's my opinion, there's no way I'll apologise for my reactions.

Kizzy 04-12-2017 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Santa (Post 9723221)
I didn't say she needs to have extensive experience of it. I said she doesn't have ANY experience of it.

I also said she's entitled to her opinion. I'm only pointing out that her opinion is ignorant, archaic, uninformed, reactionary nonsense. In my opinion, of course.

You're presuming she doesn't from a place of prejudice and ignorance, as your presumptions are based on the fact she's old... and that's it :/

Withano 04-12-2017 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie89 (Post 9723241)
It's not just commenting on what's in the games though, it's commenting on the effect the games have on people playing them, isn't it? If you haven't played them how can you know what effect they have?
And if the issue isn't that it might have an effect on people and just that it's distasteful, then could the same not be said about a lot of films and TV shows and that they also shouldn't show topics like child abuse or any kind of violence at all in the name of entertainment?
Does entertainment have to be PG? Can it not provoke thought about issues and contain adult themes? And why is it one rule for one form of entertainment and another for something else?.

But the abuser is being portrayed as a villain, who will inevitably lose, so I don't really see the argument there? Like nobodys gonna play that game and be like "woah, Todd seemed to have a right laugh, I wish I was more like him". After spending hours of gameplay destroying and defeating him.

Jamie89 04-12-2017 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza (Post 9723243)
It is yes, and I would feel exactly the same way about films that have this type of content.

My feeling is what mindset calls watching 'playing' something like this 'entertainment'? You have touched upon you it repulses me there, the sight sound and overall control of what happens to a virtual child is 'enjoyable' it's entertaining' you might think I'm oversensitive... think that this appeals to the undersensitive.. it's my opinion, there's no way I'll apologise for my reactions.

I suppose it's just general escapism into a story. Different games have different purposes, as do different film and tv genres, but this one seems to be about a broader sense of story and how small decisions can have a big impact, and so serious scenarios were used. There's lots of different scenarios within the game (I think from what I've heard which is only a little), it's not all focused on this particular example of child abuse, and basically in each scenario you make choices to try and achieve the best outcome for the characters involved and that's what it's really about. It's not about child abuse and it doesn't seem to be glorifying child abuse. It's using it as a plot device yes, and fair enough if that's distasteful to some, but if we're talking about the mindset of the people playing it, it's not geared around wanting to see or 'play' with child abuse at all, it's merely a plot point and the actual motives in playing the game are something else entirely.

user104658 04-12-2017 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza (Post 9723251)
You're presuming she doesn't from a place of prejudice and ignorance, as your presumptions are based on the fact she's old... and that's it :/

No, my presumption is based on the fact that she's describing the situation in an inaccurate manner, as are you, because like her, you clearly haven't bothered to look into this actual game / scene at all before passing comment, and are doing so purely based on "word of mouth" about it, and your inaccurate preconceptions of gaming in general.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza (Post 9723243)
It is yes, and I would feel exactly the same way about films that have this type of content.

My feeling is what mindset calls watching 'playing' something like this 'entertainment'? You have touched upon you it repulses me there, the sight sound and overall control of what happens to a virtual child is 'enjoyable' it's entertaining' you might think I'm oversensitive... think that this appeals to the undersensitive.. it's my opinion, there's no way I'll apologise for my reactions.

You, like those others who are so horrified, seem to be making the assumption that the viewer is in control of the abuser or the child, which is not the case... it's actually a decision-making interactive storyline where you are attempting to prevent the child from being harmed.

The talk of "games" and "playing" is, in the context of modern gaming, purely semantics and I do get why it sounds odd to those who don't engage in this activity. For the mostpart it's a throwback, in my opinion, and paints the activity - unfairly - as being more frivolous than, say, being a fan of cinema.

IF you truly feel like it's a subject that shouldn't be addressed by ANY medium then that's a different debate entirely, I suppose, but I think that's a bit of misdirection and not entirely true. After all - I haven't seen you, or Ms Rantzen, beating the war drums about Coronation Street or EastEnders - both of which have featured MULTIPLE child abuse storylines, and even more spousal abuse storylines - all as prime time pre-watershed family viewing. And usually with absolutely NO attempt to examine the situations morally or psychologically... pure, cheap entertainment. Where's the hand-wringing over that? There is none. But there is here, "because games", and because ignorance.

Jamie89 04-12-2017 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 9723264)
But the abuser is being portrayed as a villain, who will inevitably lose, so I don't really see the argument there? Like nobodys gonna play that game and be like "woah, Todd seemed to have a right laugh, I wish I was more like him". After spending hours of gameplay destroying and defeating him.

(are you still quoting the wrong post :laugh: I'm confused)

Withano 04-12-2017 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie89 (Post 9723316)
(are you still quoting the wrong post :laugh: I'm confused)

Idk i think i read it wrong anyway lol

Kizzy 04-12-2017 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Santa (Post 9723273)
No, my presumption is based on the fact that she's describing the situation in an inaccurate manner, as are you, because like her, you clearly haven't bothered to look into this actual game / scene at all before passing comment, and are doing so purely based on "word of mouth" about it, and your inaccurate preconceptions of gaming in general.



You, like those others who are so horrified, seem to be making the assumption that the viewer is in control of the abuser or the child, which is not the case... it's actually a decision-making interactive storyline where you are attempting to prevent the child from being harmed.

The talk of "games" and "playing" is, in the context of modern gaming, purely semantics and I do get why it sounds odd to those who don't engage in this activity. For the mostpart it's a throwback, in my opinion, and paints the activity - unfairly - as being more frivolous than, say, being a fan of cinema.

IF you truly feel like it's a subject that shouldn't be addressed by ANY medium then that's a different debate entirely, I suppose, but I think that's a bit of misdirection and not entirely true. After all - I haven't seen you, or Ms Rantzen, beating the war drums about Coronation Street or EastEnders - both of which have featured MULTIPLE child abuse storylines, and even more spousal abuse storylines - all as prime time pre-watershed family viewing. And usually with absolutely NO attempt to examine the situations morally or psychologically... pure, cheap entertainment. Where's the hand-wringing over that? There is none. But there is here, "because games", and because ignorance.

You are coming across as very rude and arrogant here TS, but I'll soldier on if I may.

When did I say this? You are again making presumptions... My feelings are ; why did sony use this trailer? who does it appeal to and why?
Are people buying the game as 'escapism... if so why do you need to escape to a format where fathers kill their children?
Is this the 'last taboo'... in an increasingly unshockable world is this specifically designed to push those boundaries?

I personally don't keep up with soap plotlines,but then you aren't paying £46 to watch ken barlow twat some kid about nor does he own an android he keeps abusing and reprogramming.

You could say that the issues in corrers are real life situations that are sensitively handled such as the recent grooming storylineI read about recently... Are you really aligning this virtual reality fantasy to anything that could be taken as a real life scenario? Real life abused children don't have android maidservants to help them...sorry to burst your bubble.

You are playing it, it's a game... it's an interactive story, virtual realityesque game what else are you doing? You aren't participating in it, it isn't a sport.

smudgie 04-12-2017 09:44 PM

Am I the only old beggar that doesn't have a problem with it.
If this game has been passed by the censors I can't see a problem.
If it has an age limit on it then it's up to the parents to prevent the kids from watching/playing it.
If as has been stated on this thread that you are given options on how to change the outcome then bring it on.
Adverts on child abuse have been around for years, it's not something to be swept under the carpet.
This from someone who was a very violently abused child who had no idea what to do about it at the time.

user104658 04-12-2017 09:50 PM

To be fair I do question their use of that specific scene in the public trailer. It probably was a marketing decision made for sensationalist reasons but, there, it's important to remember that the creative minds behind creating the game and it's content are not the ones who are advertising it.

If they had kept this scene out of the trailer, then only people who are actually interested in the game would have seen it, and we wouldn't have to put up with Esther's crowing.


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