[Tom4784]

'Abusers will get off on this stuff': Sony under fire for 'repulsive' video game Detroit: Become Human which shows girl, 10, 'beaten to death by her father' among a host of child abuse and domestic violence acts players watch
Set in ‘near-future’ in Detroit, game features androids, including housekeeper Kara - controlled by the player
Kara works for abusive father Todd, who has a young daughter Alice, whom he blames for marriage break-up
In one scene, Alice says, 'He's going to hurt me'; she runs upstairs as Todd follows, saying, 'Daddy's very mad'
Childline founder Dame Esther Rantzen urged publisher to remove child abuse scene or withdraw PS4 game

A video game depicting child abuse and domestic violence was condemned as ‘repulsive’ last night by MPs and campaigners.

In one harrowing scene, a girl aged about ten is heard screaming as her father apparently beats her to death in her bedroom.

Elsewhere, she says: ‘He’s coming, he’s going to hurt me.’ In another sequence, the child runs upstairs trailed menacingly by her belt-wielding father who shouts: ‘Alice, Daddy’s very mad.’

The multi-million pound game, Detroit: Become Human, is likely to be a hit when launched next year by Japanese games giant Sony. It is already available to pre-order on Amazon for £46.

Childline founder Dame Esther Rantzen called the game – made for the PlayStation 4 console – ‘sick and repulsive’.

She urged publisher Sony Interactive Entertainment to either remove the child abuse scene or withdraw the game.

Dame Esther told The Mail on Sunday: ‘Violence against children is not entertainment. It’s not a game. It’s a real nightmare for thousands of children who have to live through these kinds of scenarios. The makers of this game should be thoroughly ashamed. I think it’s perverse. Who thinks beating a child is entertainment?’

Andy Burrows, of the NSPCC, added: ‘Any video game that trivialises or normalises child abuse, neglect or domestic violence for entertainment is unacceptable.’

But the man who wrote and directed the game tried to deflect the criticism of the abuse scene by describing it as ‘very strong and moving’.

Set in the ‘near-future’ in the US city Detroit, the game features lifelike androids which have become part of society.

Players take on the role of one of them, cyborg housekeeper Kara, and can decide how the story unfolds by making choices with their controllers, prompted by options flashing up on screen.

Kara goes to work for Todd, an abusive father, who orders her to clean the house and look after his daughter Alice. The storyline soon takes a dark turn with Todd exploding with rage over dinner and blaming his daughter for the break-up of his marriage.

Throwing the dining table at the wall, he screams at Alice: ‘Maybe you think this is easy, maybe you think it’s my fault your ********** mother took off. ********** ***** walked out on me for a ********** accountant.’

It is at this point that a petrified Alice runs upstairs.

Screams are then heard before Todd lays Alice’s lifeless body on the bed saying: ‘It’s all over now, Daddy isn’t angry any more.’

He then turns on Kara and screams: ‘This is all your fault.’

By choosing from a variety of options, the game offers players the chance to prevent Alice’s apparent death. Kara can run upstairs with the girl, for instance, or lock a door or try to reason with Todd. Each option has different outcomes.

In one, Kara is punched in the face by Todd. In another, Alice picks up her father’s gun and shoots him in the back to stop him beating Kara. Earlier, the android examines a picture apparently drawn by Alice showing a maid with her arm broken off, suggesting Todd has a history of abuse. In another clip, Todd screams at Kara: ‘She [Alice] is mine. I do what I want with her,’ Then he strikes the android in the face as his daughter looks on.

Detroit: Become Human is not the first game to spark controversy. The Grand Theft Auto series of video games – in which players roam around cities stealing cars and killing – have routinely been criticised for gratuitous depictions of graphic sex, violence and drug use.

In 2005, one version of the game, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, caused outrage after it emerged that it contained secret sex scenes that players could unlock.

The NSPCC’s Mr Burrows said research has shown that ‘children and young people often play 18+ games before they reach this age’.

And Peter Saunders, founder of the National Association of People Abused in Childhood, said: ‘Abusers will get off on this stuff and the other thing we know beyond question is that videos games end up being played by children and, scarily, the proliferation of salacious and abusive images is actually encouraging violence and abuse.

Detroit: Become Human is not the first game to spark controversy. In 2005, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas caused outrage after it emerged that it contained secret sex scenes that players could unlock +5
Detroit: Become Human is not the first game to spark controversy. In 2005, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas caused outrage after it emerged that it contained secret sex scenes that players could unlock

‘And we know that abuse in all its forms is escalating on this planet so why not help to tackle it constructively rather than sensationalise and make money out if it?’

Tory MP Damian Collins, Chairman of the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee, said: ‘It is completely wrong for domestic violence to be part of a video game regardless of what the motivation is. Domestic violence is not a game and this simply trivialises it. I worry that people who play this who themselves have suffered abuse will use this game to shape the way in which they deal with abusers.

‘It’s dangerous to plant the seed in people’s minds that the way to deal with abusers is to use violence against them. It’s counter-productive and could put them in even more danger.’

The game has been developed by French firm Quantic Dream. One of their previous adventure games, Heavy Rain, cost £35 million to develop and market and ended up banking Sony more than £88 million.

Last night Quantic did not respond to requests by The Mail on Sunday for comment. David Cage, who wrote and directed the game, has defended it. He told an interviewer: ‘If you look really into the game and if you play it you’ll understand that the game is not about domestic abuse. It’s a part of Kara’s [the android’s] story – she’s not a victim and she has a beautiful story. Hopefully you will be moved by what happens.’

Asked about the abuse scene, Mr Cage said: ‘For me it’s a very strong and moving scene, and I was interested to put the player in the position of this woman. I chose her point of view.’ He added: ‘What’s important to me, and what’s important in Detroit is to say that a game is as legitimate as a film or a book or a play to explore any topic such as domestic abuse.’

But Children’s Commissioner for England, Anne Longfield, said that whatever the makers’ motivations ‘it seems to end up in a clumsy, inappropriate and graphic game play that is no more than an unpleasant exploitative way of making money off the back of real suffering’.

Last night, The Video Standards Council, which is responsible for deciding computer game age ratings, refused to say whether or not they would grant it a classification and allow the game to be released.

A spokesman said: ‘Any decision to refuse a certificate is not taken lightly and to the extent we consider necessary we are able to consult our advisory panel of leading psychologists and legal experts.’

Sony Interactive Entertainment declined to comment.

ESTHER RANTZEN: This isn't just savage - it's highly dangerous
'Criminals who attack children often create similar fantasies in their imaginations before they act them out. Such a criminal would regard this game as a validation,' says Esther Rantzen +5
'Criminals who attack children often create similar fantasies in their imaginations before they act them out. Such a criminal would regard this game as a validation,' says Esther Rantzen

There was a time – more cruel and less civilised than ours – when public executions were enjoyed as entertainment.

In those savage days, crowds watched old women being drowned as witches and animals tortured for fun.

But I’ve never heard of little girls being beaten with a belt as part of a game. That, in my view, is not just savage, it’s seriously damaging.

Who would play such a game for fun? People who are impervious to the suffering of children.

At Childline I have listened to the voices of beaten children.

I remember a paediatrician telling me of a child whose body carried the scars of dozens of ferocious beatings with a belt.

How could anyone even contemplate creating a video game with that as a ‘fun’ element in it?

Then there is the added danger that a child might play this hideous game – perhaps a child who lives with violence, who has been beaten or watched parents physically fighting.

How many nightmares will this game provoke?

Criminals who attack children often create similar fantasies in their imaginations before they act them out. Such a criminal would regard this game as a validation.

The designers of video games have a duty to protect children, and that responsibility extends to protecting virtual children.

We never want anyone to believe that beating a child to death with a belt is the stuff of entertainment. It should never be trivialised or turned into a game.

I call upon Sony Interactive Entertainment to think again and withdraw this game, or at least remove this scene where a virtual child is put in life-threatening danger. If you don’t, real children may suffer.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...repulsive.html

The trailer for the context that these stupid politicians and Esther Rantzen seemed to miss out on.

Youtube video

Bit of a continuation from another topic I made a while back.

It bothers me that people will take issue with this game (which, you can tell from the trailer neither glamorises or normalises abuse) yet they'll happily sit around with their families and watch Bethany from Corrie getting sexually abused for almost a year with nary a peep. Games can tackle issues just as well as TV shows can, as games become more cinematic, the gap between narratives of games and traditional mediums like Film and TV are becoming smaller.

I also dislike the whole 'protect our children from EVIL video games!' angle it took with the mention that most children play violent video games before they are old enough to buy them but that's surely the fault of the parents? Most games cost around £30-60 so it's not likely these kids are buying them themselves and even if they are, a kid won't be sold something like GTA unless an adult buys it for them. If a parent can't be bothered to notice the massive age ratings on the game boxes when they buy them then that's their fault that they are buying games meant for older audiences. It's up to parents to pay attention to what they are buying their kids to decide whether or not their children are mature enough to play games meant for an older audience.

Ultimately though, these idiot people speaking out really need to understand the context before they condemn something they were likely told about and probably haven't even seen for themselves.

[arista]

Yes was debated on Ch5HD Live Am
its a 18 Game.

No one views the death of the child.

Its more about the Police Android female assistant.

Its out in 4 weeks or so..............

[bots]

there is worse than this on the TV all the time. One particular series that comes to mind was 24 where they had a kid being abused by her father. If we just hide it away and pretend it doesn't exist, how can kids prepare themselves for the big wide world

[arista]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

there is worse than this on the TV all the time. One particular series that comes to mind was 24 where they had a kid being abused by her father. If we just hide it away and pretend it doesn't exist, how can kids prepare themselves for the big wide world

Yes and Film
that what the makers say.......................


Ref : Ch5HD AM Live debate.

[Crimson Dynamo]

'Abusers will get off on this stuff'

[arista]

Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14

'Abusers will get off on this stuff'

As they do on Films..........................

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by arista

As they do on Films..........................

they wont be shelling out 44 squid on a game for a cut scene

that is for sure

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It bothers me that people will take issue with this game (which, you can tell from the trailer neither glamorises or normalises abuse) yet they'll happily sit around with their families and watch Bethany from Corrie getting sexually abused for almost a year with nary a peep. Games can tackle issues just as well as TV shows can, as games become more cinematic, the gap between narratives of games and traditional mediums like Film and TV are becoming smaller.

Well yes, quite. I don't know what else to say on this to be quite honest.

[Oliver_W]

Unless the game has a level where you actually control the abuser, the people moaning about this must have the brain power and analytical skills of Anita Sarkeesian. It's clearly not showing the actions in a good light.

[Toy Soldier]

The story here is basically "77 year old woman doesn't understand what modern video games are and gets very angry about stuff".

Backed up by others from another time / generation. They "get it" when it's movies, or TV, but to them, games are "things like Mario" that are a bit of lighthearted fun... Therefore, if there's abuse in a game, it must be for the sake of lighthearted fun.

Meh. They'll die off soon enough .

[Kizzy]

And people say desensitisation isn't a 'thing'...

[Jamie89]

Youtube video

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

The story here is basically "77 year old woman doesn't understand what modern video games are and gets very angry about stuff".

Backed up by others from another time / generation. They "get it" when it's movies, or TV, but to them, games are "things like Mario" that are a bit of lighthearted fun... Therefore, if there's abuse in a game, it must be for the sake of lighthearted fun.

Meh. They'll die off soon enough .

It won’t be long before people are saying that about those currently in their 30s. 35 is after-all official middle age. Best not wish your life away.

[Kizzy]

'Modern' video games are about the normalisation of violence and/ or abuse, mocking those who highlight this as a issue reiterates my point.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It won’t be long before people are saying that about those currently in their 30s. 35 is after-all official middle age. Best not wish your life away.

If I ever start to be ignorant and judgemental of things that younger generations enjoy that I don't understand, then I expect they'll be happy to see me go too.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

'Modern' video games are about the normalisation of violence and/ or abuse, mocking those who highlight this as a issue reiterates my point.

They aren't, and it's not really wise to pass judgement on things that you have no experience of, and don't engage in yourself. All you're doing here is parroting what you've read elsewhere.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

They aren't, and it's not really wise to pass judgement on things that you have no experience of, and don't engage in yourself. All you're doing here is parroting what you've read elsewhere.

You're passing judgement on this '77yr old woman' ... Why are you presuming she has no experience, you're coming across as both ageist and sexist, why shouldn't she or myself have a say on this topic?

What a strange controlling thing to state, you are effectively standing atop your soapbox and denying her an opinion.

There are several things I don't have direct experience of, mass murder, fondue, being a boxing champion... it doesn't stop me having an opinion on them.
To be fair to Esther she has worked with childline for decades I don't know how you can say isn't qualified to comment on this distasteful virtual voyerism dressed up as 'entertainment' ... It's very odd.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

You're passing judgement on this '77yr old woman' ... Why are you presuming she has no experience, you're coming across as both ageist and sexist, why shouldn't she or myself have a say on this topic?

What a strange controlling thing to state, you are effectively standing atop your soapbox and denying her an opinion.

There are several things I don't have direct experience of, mass murder, fondue, being a boxing champion... it doesn't stop me having an opinion on them.
To be fair to Esther she has worked with childline for decades I don't know how you can say isn't qualified to comment on this distasteful virtual voyerism dressed up as 'entertainment' ... It's very odd.

Agree on this.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

You're passing judgement on this '77yr old woman' ... Why are you presuming she has no experience, you're coming across as both ageist and sexist, why shouldn't she or myself have a say on this topic?

What a strange controlling thing to state, you are effectively standing atop your soapbox and denying her an opinion.

There are several things I don't have direct experience of, mass murder, fondue, being a boxing champion... it doesn't stop me having an opinion on them.
To be fair to Esther she has worked with childline for decades I don't know how you can say isn't qualified to comment on this distasteful virtual voyerism dressed up as 'entertainment' ... It's very odd.

I very much doubt that she, or you, have ever extensively played a modern narrative-driven video game and so no... she isn't qualified to comment on what it is or what effect it has. Of course she's entitled to her opinion on it - as are you - but the fact is, because she demonstrably has absolutely zero idea what she's talking about, having never taken part in this form of media in ANY way let alone this specific example, her archaic opinion on it is worth precisely sh*t. Which is fitting - as she appears to have pulled it out of her arse.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

You're passing judgement on this '77yr old woman' ... Why are you presuming she has no experience, you're coming across as both ageist and sexist, why shouldn't she or myself have a say on this topic?

What a strange controlling thing to state, you are effectively standing atop your soapbox and denying her an opinion.

There are several things I don't have direct experience of, mass murder, fondue, being a boxing champion... it doesn't stop me having an opinion on them.
To be fair to Esther she has worked with childline for decades I don't know how you can say isn't qualified to comment on this distasteful virtual voyerism dressed up as 'entertainment' ... It's very odd.

It's not just commenting on what's in the games though, it's commenting on the effect the games have on people playing them, isn't it? If you haven't played them how can you know what effect they have?
And if the issue isn't that it might have an effect on people and just that it's distasteful, then could the same not be said about a lot of films and TV shows and that they also shouldn't show topics like child abuse or any kind of violence at all in the name of entertainment?
Does entertainment have to be PG? Can it not provoke thought about issues and contain adult themes? And why is it one rule for one form of entertainment and another for something else?

[Withano]

The game to me, looks like a pretty valuable lesson in the things you can do to stop an abusive parent, and ultimately save a childs life?.. If anyone has a problem with that, I'd argue that they're more of a problem than the game by miles.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

It's not just commenting on what's in the games though, it's commenting on the effect the games have on people playing them, isn't it? If you haven't played them how can you know what effect they have?
And if the issue isn't that it might have an effect on people and just that it's distasteful, then could the same not be said about a lot of films and TV shows and that they also shouldn't show topics like child abuse or any kind of violence at all in the name of entertainment?
Does entertainment have to be PG? Can it not provoke thought about issues and contain adult themes? And why is it one rule for one form of entertainment and another for something else?

The rule of thumb is "if it didn't exist when I was a young'un, it is strange and corrupting our youth!"

See... 70 years ago, the older generations DID believe this sort of rabid, reactionary nonsense about cinema. 50 years ago, they believed it about television. Today, it's video games and / or sometimes "The Internet" that is the "terrible demon amongst us". I wasn't being flippant when I said this older generation will die off soon enough and people will forget that gaming was ever demonized as being any different to television or movies... that is exactly what will happen.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Withano

The game to me, looks like a pretty valuable lesson in the things you can do to stop an abusive parent, and ultimately save a childs life?.. If anyone has a problem with that, I'd argue that they're more of a problem than the game by miles.

I'd be very, very surprised if she's even seen the game footage or read anything about the actual content tbqfh. Someone has said to her "Hey Esther - this game has a scene in it that features child abuse!" and she has instantly gone off on one, no doubt imagining a 2D sprite of a bearded leather-bound thug beating up a child whilst a 9 year old hammers on a SNES controller and cackles.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

The game to me, looks like a pretty valuable lesson in the things you can do to stop an abusive parent, and ultimately save a childs life?.. If anyone has a problem with that, I'd argue that they're more of a problem than the game by miles.

You would.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

I very much doubt that she, or you, have ever extensively played a modern narrative-driven video game and so no... she isn't qualified to comment on what it is or what effect it has. Of course she's entitled to her opinion on it - as are you - but the fact is, because she demonstrably has absolutely zero idea what she's talking about, having never taken part in this form of media in ANY way let alone this specific example, her archaic opinion on it is worth precisely sh*t. Which is fitting - as she appears to have pulled it out of her arse.

So you can only comment on things you have extensive experience of?

I will be looking forward to you deleting 100s of comments specifically applicable to women then..
What an unjustified, aggressive and unpleasant response.

She is entitled to an opinion on this topic, as am I ... I am shocked at the voracity of your reaction and more than a little concerned if I'm honest.