"Biden’s trans rights agenda is bad news for women and girls" - Debbie Hayton
 

Thoughts?

I don't think people generally want their teen daughters sharing female spaces with boys, even if the boys do identify as girls...

Sex based rights are important, including the rights to female only spaces; why couldn't Biden help out transwomen without negatively affecting women.

Hes a monster.

I wouldn't go that far, it probably came from a good, if misjudged place.

I agree. Allowing biological males compete against biological females in sports competing for college places for example is going to expose the pitfalls with this and the ways in which it can be abused. I'm sure it's all come from a good place and a want to be inclusive but you don't want to end up excluding biological girls/women in the process either

Hes a ****ing idiot then:shrug:

Trans women are women, they deserve to be treated the same as other women no matter what.

Tbf there's a lot of "COULD soon be".

Also why is the disgust always towards trans women? Do trans men not make you all feel fragile either?

Spouting off a catch phrase isn't reality though, there are biological advantages males have over females, that's the whole reason sport was separated by sex in the first place so how is it fair on biological girls/women to change that separation now to gender separation instead of sex? nobody has a gender advantage when it comes to sport

-Me being dumb-

It's not disgust to point out a biological reality. Again when it comes to sport it's to do with transwomen because they're the ones with the biological advantage. I've not seen a transman beat any male sports records yet, there's been quite a few women's records beaten so far though by transwomen, why do you think that is?

Who has shown disgust? No one.

-Me being dumb-

I'm a woman, I have a right to speak up about women's rights without being insulted. Do you disagree with the point I made? If so what have I said that is incorrect?

-Me being dumb-

If you can't actually respond to anything Niamh said it's probably best to say nothing.

-Me being dumb-

:joker:

lovely

It comes from a good place, however there is no thought whatsoever about female people. In sports particularly. There is a lot of evidence that its unfair, yet some still push for it (see Stonewall still pushing for transwomen in womens rugby, in the face of the evidence that shows this is very dangerous aswell as unfair). Because..well women don't matter seemingly. Won't post anymore in this as know how these threads go, but Debbie Hayton..I tend to agree with on most things. She is also a transwoman, but one who acknowledges biological reality and thinks about women aswell as trans people instead of putting women at the back of the line for everything. The lack of consideration for women during this whole 'trans rights' thing is vile tbh. Yet women are the bigoted ones for saying they should be bloody considered while their rights and protections are stripped away. Its possible to advance trans rights without trampling over womens rights. There are many ways to do this. Just activists seem to not want to do that, much easier to just threaten women into silence and take over. Activists seem the issue in this tbh, as actual transsexual people tend to be decent people who think about all, such as Debbie Hayton. Such transsexual people, get as much grief and threats from activists as women who dare to speak up do!

Tbh, these days I don't even take 'terf' as an insult. Because its thrown at anyone who gives any thought to biological women. Even if they also support trans people (or transwomen, that should be. Given transmen are kind of invivisble in this. Which is odd as if that followed the usual pattern, transmen activists would be the ones shouting over women and transwomen.)...just the fact they think about women is horrendous and bigoted.

-Me being dumb-

Hmm. I sort of see this... I honestly don't think, if women's sports got to the point where the top tiers were entirely dominated by transwomen, or it was obvious that things like sports scholarships were being hoovered up by transwomen, that it would continue forever. I think if it happened, action would be taken to stop it happening. They would stuff the genie back in the bottle.

But that would come with a whooole range of other problems.

If this is your only response to Niamh's argument it only makes her seem more right.

An emotional response instead of a logical one doesn't convince anyone.

Niamh hasn't questioned your existence. She's discussing actual examples where women and transwomen ARE different.

Acting like a child about it doesn't change this.

-Me being dumb-

This was what a few of us tried to express in another thread, the concerns regarding womens rights but you risk being labelled a terf the minute you speak out about it.

Wow.

Male socialisation versus female socialisation...

Trans women are women it is that simple. Don't over think it.

Whatever, yeah, throwing TERF around anytime anyone questions anything remotely to do with gender issues causes a LOT MORE problems than anything Niamh said.

Maybe show an iota of respect for women if you want the same returned to you.

I have only ever spoken about how women's rights are being affected, why shouldn't I be allowed to do that, that does concern me. And can i just say I was the only one in this thread being told to shut the **** up

-Me being dumb-

I don't be necessarily agree with the part about "reducing women to a fantasy", whatever that means. But women standing up for female rights being slapped down and labelled with a slur? Spot on.

I genuinely understand why you'd be frustrated with this issue and how hard it can be to engage properly on a topic where there's heavy emotional investment... But honestly, all I can do here is echo what I've said to many people on many different topic on this forum;

If you can engage in an actual debate - even an angry one - then a debates forum is not the place to be. "I don't want anyone to talk about this because I find it offensive" just isn't a good enough reason for anyone to avoid discussion of any issue...

If you have a counter argument or a point to make then make it, if you can't engage without baseless name calling (and hey... I don't personally even care about name calling... Just back it with an argument at least) then don't engage at all... And when it comes right down to it... If you find a topic too painful to see being discussed, then steer clear of the topic. Because no one gets to decide what other people can or can't discuss.

Maybe you're right, I am sorry Niamh, for calling you a terf, and for getting angry at you Marsh

The anger hasnt stemmed from you but from real life, I am sorry for my outburst, legitimately and ban me if you must. The anger has stemmed from people legitimately putting trans people down and I recognise that that is not what you are doing, I regret saying what I did.

Actually disgusting, Niamh has been very polite and made some valid points and your response is to abuse her?

Edit, I can see you have apologised now, lets leave it there.

No worries.

great this forum at times, forgot what i was missing :joker: :joker:

#WeStandWithScarlett x