Transgender individual walks into female section of L.A. spa in front of women, kids
 

Hard left thugs went on the rampage

Brawls erupt at Wi Spa protests over trans issues; street preacher
bleeds from his head after attacked by mob with Antifa flag

There were dueling demonstrations over trans rights in Los Angeles on
Saturday afternoon, which led to several confrontations, some of which were
violent. The passionate protest and counter-protest were fueled by a viral
video of a woman who was upset that there was a biological man who
identified as a woman in the female-only area of a California spa.

full details and more shocking videos here:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/wi-spa...-attack-antifa

In terms of the top video :shrug:. Two tribes of screeching morons going at each other's throats. It's just Live Action Twitter isn't it. At this point I feel sympathy for neither group.

In terms of what the whole thing started over? Well, apparently it was because someone had their penis and testicles out in front of children at this spa. No... can the world not at least agree... that this simply isn't approportiate be it man/woman/transman/transwoman/non-binary or whatever? Why is there even a debate over whether or not this was OK?

Are we really at the stage where people are up-in-arms fighting for their "right" to get their cock & balls out infront of little girls? ... utterly insane.

Andy Ngo is known for working with the proud boys to agitate against the left, then misreport, the other dude is a newsmax contributor and the blaze is a far right, nativist organisation set up and run by Glenn beck who has a history of lies.

i have no idea what the actual sequence of events were, but we need to some proper reporting on it before an honest conclusion or opinion can be reached.

Yes Antifa
Evil Left Wing Criminals

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/07...5377885554.jpg
[A bloodied counter-protester taunts the crowd
as he stands behind a line of police after being
injured in a clash with protesters]

If that is the truth, then yes we can happily agree on it, but something seems off about the "blokes in bathrooms brigade" suddenly finding a bloke in a changing room.

Like I said, I have a feeling there is more to comes from this story, especially when it comes to finding the guy who was walking around with his John Thomas out.

This is the video that went Viral

I agree to an extent but honestly when two clans of violent, reactionary individuals are clashing and the argument amounts to "ReeEEeEEeeee!! Go 'wayy!! Get oudda heeeere! We don't like uuu!!!" I'm fairly comfortable in assuming that it's just that. Two flavours of sheep bleating at each other. Both think they're in the right. Both are mostly full of ****. Half of both are in it for the fight more than the cause.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/07...5380019431.jpg
[Antifa clash with a counter protester
outside the Wi Spa in the Koreatown
area of Los Angeles]

i'm sorry, i can't stop laughing at that guy behind the police, is it some sort of cartoon? :laugh:

All this happened just after trump gave a speech asking why the jan 6th dudes were locked up, but antifa weren't. Could be nothing, could be something. Until proper reporting is done, then we'll have to wait.

The least accurate thing you can say about the group that's supposedly pro-male genitals in girls faces, is that it's a reactionary position.

I absolutely agree with the bit in bold though.

But see this is where it all falls apart. The blatant transhobia and lack of rational, clear and understandable protest in this video means that "the other side" will only react to that - the language used, the anger, the actual transphobia present... and the calmer voices in the background saying;

"The way she's framing this is indeed transphobic however there is still something here that needs addressing"

Get totally drowned out and lost. Anyone who doesn't unquestioningly accept that there should be "no debate" over things like changing areas is immediately branded transphobic in anger... anyone who believes that there is actually a way forward with some consideration is likewise lumped in with one side or the other. Or both. It's amazingly easy to be dismissed as a "trans ally" by actual transphobes whilst similtaneously being branded a transphobe by trans activists.

Pick your side and live on the extreme fringe of that side; that's apparently the only option.

[Protests were sparked in Los Angeles
after a viral video showed a customer complaining
about a transgender woman who
allegedly exposed their penis in a steam room
The video sparked a protest against transgender
people using the spa steam room,
which was met by a counter-project by
Antifa activists
Hordes of people showed up
outside of Wi Spa on Wilshire Boulevard
Protesters were seen assaulting an
independent journalist who was hit
in the head with a pipe
Videos also showed melees between
the two groups as they brawled
on the streets of Los Angeles]


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...enis-kids.html

Of course it's reactrionary; it's a pre-scripted stock reaction to an expected set of events. There is no thought, there is no rationale, and these groups have a lot (a LOT) more in common than they do setting them apart. That's the most worrying part. The idea that these represent different ends of a spectrum... they don't. They're different flavours of the same brand of ice-cream, and it would take a lot (a lot, lot, lot) to convince me that the people with the masks, placards and loudspeakers don't have a hell of a lot more of the features of reactionary conservatism than they do anything remotely resembling progressives/liberalism. It's BS. It's a reactionary conservative mindset that happens to be infused with a different set of core values - the people involved are generally very young. This is their conservatism, and the groups seen in these videos are ALL employing the tactics of facism.

I think we're working from different definitions of reactionary. I agree with pretty much everything else you wrote after the initial definition, but I disagree that any movement that doesn't yet have full recognition could ever be conserved.

There are plenty of other useable descriptors we would probably agree on without any hassle, such as puritanical.

the poor lady has just had a cock and balls thrust in her face in a ladies changing room, I think we can allow her a degree of shock and anger and the staff are not exactly handling this well either

Puritanical is a good word for it, I think I've descended a bit into ranting on this thread but I'm struggling a bit with this stuff at the moment. I've always been frustrated by the insistent moral absolutism and what I thought was refusal to engage with the more complicated, more nuanced discussion of how to get to a point of successful optimal interweaving of rights... but I'm starting to get to a place of accepting that it isn't refusal to have those discussions - it's inability. It's beyond the scope of what the groups who get heavily involved in the "conversation" (argument) are actually capable of. Rapidly losing hope.

Yes that is Shocking

In this case it descends to a point where the outcome is never going to be anything but backlash and people won't listen to what the problem actually was. She descends into just repeatedly arguing "No that is a man! That is a man! Transexuals don't exist!"

The crux of the argument is already lost.

With a more level head, if she had said; "Whether you're saying the individual is a man or a woman is irrelevant - it is their penis."

They can't argue with that statement other than to say "So what if it is?" and then you can quickly lead them to a place where they have no choice but to attempt to justify that it's OK for someone to expose their penis to young girls. A very, very hard argument to make - I'd like to see someone give it a go.

But if you don't do that the possibility of making that point vanishes and the argument will only focus on "OMG you said there's no such thing as transwomen". What the individual did or didn't do becomes irrelevant and the whole thing gets swallowed up in the endless clash of the wider debate.

Tucker has featured this on his show

https://www.foxnews.com/media/lgbtq-...irls-at-la-spa

I'm sure she had a point in there somewhere but oh my. It was... difficult to decipher. I think(?) I largely agree with her main point and it's what I said above - the "wider clash between ideologies" here has managed to completely over-ride the fact that an INDIVIDUAL (seemingly) chose to expose their junk in front of children and that in itself must surely be considered a problem... and it highlights why the concerns of women in terms of single-sex spaces are not unfounded and why SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE ffs needs to sit down and start having rational, level-headed, grown up conversations about what needs to happen to make things the best they can be for everyone. Open, honest debate that isn't being constantly shut down by angry screaming from both corners.

Tucker himself is as always a slack-jawed arsehole, but I get that it's a gimmick that appeals to his core audience.

Interesting comment from the Independent article on this:

" It is outrageous that the feelings of a fraction of a percent of the population - deluded men with a colossal sense of male entitlement - should override the safeguarding of 50 percent of the population. This was an adult man exposing his genitals to women and little girls in a women-only safe space. A few years ago he would have been prosecuted, now he is defended and the women who complain are vilified - what the hell is going on?"

Being debated LIVE on LBC right now

https://www.lbc.co.uk/

…the design of this was always to be confrontational and not conversational, though….the fliers that the lady posted were a public/social media invitation to an ‘anti-pedo protest’…there were members of both QAnon and Antifa there, it had an agenda that was only ever meant to incite and aggravate, really…and sadly it’s the exact thing that only makes that conversation which needs to happen, more and more difficult…

Antifa is far worse, Violent Left Wing Mob
though.

My overwhelming feeling is still that in the end there will be no winners at the end of all of this. As it hits the mainstream consciousness more and more, the entire trans and very possibly the entire LGBTQ community is going to come under fire for the aggressive actions of a few.

I hate right right propaganda, remember when they wanted us all to believe Biden was a creepy old pervert when they supported Trump of all people :facepalm: .

..I’m not getting into who is worse that who, that’s so playground, Arista…the point that I was making is that the flier that was posted was designed to cause exactly what it has…

…this is exactly what this ‘conversation’ doesn’t need and will only make it more and more difficult and less likely….because the situation is being hijacked by bigotry IMO…

No lgbtq member will admit that, and non LGBTQ members will just deflect and sweep the accusation under the table.

Genuine Bigotry on one side and unfounded (and in my opinion, often disingenuous and weaponised) accusations of bigotry on the other. It’s a mess all round and one feeds into the other; on the one hand genuine bigots can hide behind people who want a genuine conversation and pretend that they are not just bigots… on the other, it’s easier for people to throw accusations of “TERF” and “transphobe” at those people who just want a genuine conversation, if those people have genuine bigots clinging to their coat tails.

The result at the end of the day is that there can be no good faith political/academic discussion of the best way forward while there are genuinely hateful people screaming on one side, and aggressive moral-absolutist children chanting on the other.

It’s a flat-out dangerous discussion. We can discuss it in theory on a small anonymous platform like TiBB but in the open? Under my own name? Frankly - I simply am not prepared to take the sort of very real personal flak that comes with even trying to have that debate with anything resembling nuance.

Have we really come to a place where whether exposed adult genitals around children is appropriate or not is an actual debate?

…I think that there are some ‘genuine sides’ who would be fine and open to discuss it…(…I don’t like the use of ‘sides’ as a term as such because I think there is quite a bit of common ground but there is a lot of progression still to get with conversations…)….but I’ve stated before that I feel there is some disingenuous intent and jumping on a bandwagon when I refer to bigotry…sexism and lack of support for many feminist related issues until the ‘transgender’ flag is waved and then …oh….

…as I say, I don’t feel that this is a good place to have such conversations but I do appreciate that there is some genuine willingness to have them from some and that’s sad and frustrating also…

sadly in crazy California

yes

and if you disagree then a large number of people will attack you physically and try to seriously injure you

Transgender individual walks into female section of L.A. spa in front of women, kids
 

I honestly think the vast majority of people (women, trans community, everyone) is more than open to the discussion but the fringes on both sides are so dogmatic and aggressive that it simply literally isn’t safe to do so. In fact I don’t just think, I know. I personally know academics who have withdrawn from research and academic discussion of these issues because of the level of threats, intimidation and harassment. It is extremely worrying.

…it’s definitely a conversation that has to be had, it’s quite concerning not to have it because there are genuine fears that are going to build as fears do…there is no other direction for them other than to build… but the Internet, sites like this and social media …are not the places because there are other agendas injected into it as well…I’m not sure what the solution to that one is tbh….

Meanwhile in the UK the High court rules its lawful for women to feel anxious or unsafe in prison and upholds the rights of transgender women over women

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57692993
It is lawful for transgender women to be housed in female jails in England and Wales, the High Court has ruled.
A female prisoner, known as FDJ, had challenged the Ministry of Justice over aspects of the policy.
She claimed she had been sexually assaulted by a trans prisoner but the MoJ did not say whether it accepted this alleged incident had taken place.
The judge ruled barring all trans women from female prisons would ignore their right to live as their chosen gender.
Women's prisons can house inmates who were born male but identify as female, regardless of whether they have gone through any physical transformation or have obtained a gender recognition certificate.
The MoJ argued the policy pursued a legitimate aim, including "facilitating the rights of transgender people to live in and as their acquired gender (and) protecting transgender people's mental and physical health".
The claimant in the case, FDJ, had said she was sexually assaulted in prison in 2017 by a trans woman with a gender recognition certificate (GRC), who had convictions for serious sexual offences.
The claimant's lawyers argued that placing transgender women in the female prisons exposed others to higher risk, citing a claim that transgender inmates were five times more likely than non-transgender prisoners to commit a sexual assault on a non-transgender prisoner.


n a judgement handed down via email, Lord Justice Holroyd accepted the statistical evidence showed proportion of trans prisoners convicted of sexual offences was "substantially higher" than for non-transgender men and women prisoners
But he said this specific claim was a "misuse of the statistics, which... are so low in number, and so lacking in detail, that they are an unsafe basis for general conclusions".
Between 2016 and 2019, 97 sexual assaults were recorded in women's prisons, the judgement said. Of these, it appears that seven were committed by transgender prisoners without a GRC. It is not known whether any were committed by transgender women with a GRC.
As of March 2019, there were 34 transgender women without GRCs allocated to a woman's prison. The number of transgender prisoners with a certificate is thought to be in single-figures across the prison population as a whole.
The judge said he "fully understood" the concerns of FDJ, and that women prisoners "may suffer fear and acute anxiety" if housed with a transgender woman who has male genitalia.
But he added that the rights of transgender women prisoners must also be considered.