Have you ever had a panic attack before?
 

Have you?

no

Many …

Yes several, quite severe ones. Not for years though cos I'm on medication.

I've had two in my life, both quite a while ago now. Had no idea what was happening first time because it came out of nowhere, thought I was having a heart attack. Second time was a couple years later in the middle of the night, I felt pretty disoriented most of the next day from it

Not LT pretending that he's never lost his temper.

The bus man had to get my dad because I had one on the bus, wasn’t good

I had one on a bus, had to get off. Everything was closing in on me.

What do you mean? A panic attack is in no way akin to losing your temper.

SB admitting panic attacks don't exist

You

Could

Not

Make

It

Up

😂

Only someone who's never had one can possibly say they don't exist. They do and it's very frightening especially the first time you ever have one.

Yeah, my dad came and took me home I was lucky there was only a few on the bus at that point

Awful isn't it?

First time I ever had one was when I was about to go to sleep and my head started to feel funny and woozy. Then I couldn't breathe. Was hyperventilating. Went to A and E cos I thought something was seriously wrong and they said I'd had a panic attack. After that they got frequent.

I have panic disorder so sadly have them more than once weekly. Have done for over 15 years and each one is still as terrifying as the first.

I’m much better now in terms of frequency though, there was a period of time when I was in my early 20’s that I would have them on repeat for hours and hours for days on end and was genuinely house bound. Sadly though I seem to be having a resurgence with them for various reasons, it happens. Hopefully they die down in time for me to have an enjoyable Christmas.

You just lose all rationality and think you’re going to die. Wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.

An excellent Summation. Spot on.

I had one on the bus and ended up being carted off to hospital in an ambulance. Only to wait 2 hours in the waiting room just to be told what I already knew.

A kindly woman on the bus gave me water while I was waiting. I did appreciate that.

I had one in a crowded shop, and again my head went all fuzzy and my breathing was erratic. I rushed out and left my shopping.

Blame SB equating them to being mildly annoyed

Yes. Tut.

I didn't equate them to a panic attack; I was referring to the fact that you should have picked option 3, unless you're claiming that you've never lost your cool and kicked off, and you don't strike me as "zen" champ :joker:

"experienced certain paroxysms in anxiety that almost came close"

Is the answer anyone who has ever properly lost their temper even in their younger years should choose. Which is almost everyone.

Rage is an anxiety mask. Fully losing one's temper is a panic response.

You'll have better interpersonal relationships if you can get your head around that ;).

I had a panic attack that recurred for 4 or 5 days in a row. It really f'd me up at the time

You presume to know what other people are thinking and confidently generalise too much. Rage is an autonomic response, sure, and that’s something we’re all on the table with you with but that doesn’t make explosions of anger an inherent form of anxiety.

Exactly. I'm in the panic disorder category and I've never once got angry, just extremely distressed. It did seem to be implied that that panic attacks are rage fuelled. That's how it came across from Quantum. Only sufferers can truly know how bad it is to suffer these attacks. Mine are hereditary, my mum and auntie both suffered them as well.and apparently it runs in families sometimes.

I know what my triggers were, long term abusive relationship and also my mums death. Everything had built up within my mind and body and I'd just pushed it all down, and got on with things after both experiences. Panic attacks are your brain and body saying "enough" and virtually breaking down. I had counselling which was a godsend. I got so.much out of it, cried buckets etc. Really unburdened.myself. I'm also.on medication probably for life which is fine for me. I'm far more balanced now, though my gambling was a major blip, I was showing signs again. I got more counselling and had a lot of support though, and dealt with it far better this time.

I'm sorry for what you've been through Kate and apologise if it was somehow implied that I was saying rage in inherent to anxiety. My own mum had severe issues with anxiety and depression which ultimately ended her life relatively young - and she was one of the gentlest souls I've yet to encounter. In my whole life I don't think I saw her lose her temper, even once.

I was not saying that outbursts of anger are inherent in people experiencing anxiety and, in fact, almost saying the opposite; what I'm saying is that anxiety is a root emotion that manifests in all sorts of ways, and is "masked" by all sorts of other emotions. When someone loses their temper (not when someone gets a bit mad about something -- when they lose control of their temper and lash out either verbally or physically) I am of the belief that 99% of the time what they are feeling in that moment, or at the very least, the building tension that ended in that outburst, is not "anger in itself" - it's anxiety. The shouty, angry men throwing their weight around are processing anxiety in an unhealthy way, because they've been socialised to believe that aggression is "better than" admitting to feelings of anxiety (which will be branded feminine or weak by those people).

It's not intended as a negative - realising that angry outbursts are usually rooted in anxiety is one of the best self-improvement steps a person can take if they actually want to have meaningful connections and happier lives. For one it stops angry outbursts and loss of control from being as likely in that person (if they are prone to that - like I said, I'm not for a second suggesting that all people who experience anxiety manifest it as rage). For another, it actually helps in understanding others, if you can appreciate that THEIR outbursts of anger are rooted in anxiety, fear, loneliness, frustration etc.

All I can say on that is that we fundamentally disagree, other than to say I don't think it's a "form of anxiety", I think it's an emotion mask for anxiety. They are both adrenaline-based emotions (I'm sure we agree on that?) and thus it's very difficult to experience both at once due to the adregenic receptors being "busy" -- rage/anger overrides anxiety, or in colloquial terms, "Fight beats Flight" -- and crucially, anger is a much more comfortable emotion to experience, and it's also a shorter-lived emotion that "burns out" those receptors and results in catharsis (emotional numbness, anxiety relief) in the short term. People will choose easy rage over painful anxiety, for obvious reasons, and it's a learned behaviour that sets in early (mostly in men, because it's actively encouraged).

I think you probably do understand the theory behind this at a neuropsych level so it's not just about "assuming we know how people think and feel". You know fine well that's an accusation that could be levelled at all aspects of psychology, and is nowhere near the truth.

…it’s an interesting thing because it’s another ‘not one size fits all’ type thing…panic attacks can come from very different places for different people…some aren’t even emotionally based, I believe…they can come from physical exertion…

…anger/rage can obviously come from a place of feeling threatened…/…like a fight or flight/type thing…it’s also something that very much can come from a place of triggering hurt/pain…and that can either be physical or emotional pain…for me and something that I learned in CBT of a certain thing that in the past has triggered an ‘irrational anger’…and not really having understood that apparent irrational annoyance at something that seemed quite…trivial, I guess…but in ‘tracing’ that link, it actually made complete sense because the sub conscious was linking physical pain to the annoyance and that manifested as anger because an understanding wasn’t there to focus it in any other direction…anyway, there are obviously other ‘triggers’ to anger as well in other people, we’re all different…and as I say, not one size fits all, it rarely does have that fit…

…going back to the fight or flight thing, if there was a situation for instance with someone choosing flight as an instinct…that ‘lack of assertiveness’ as it were…can create anxieties that can then build to a panic attack …when someone feels a sense of helplessness/a loss of control and feeling lost and an inner struggle as to how to regain that …that’s really touching a bit on what Kate was saying about hereditary’….in that if someone struggles to assert themselves, that can then be something that’s also passed down to a child ….anyway, these are just all ‘in my opinion’ type things…because it really does depend on the person and very specifics about them and their situation and environment and so many factors etc that creates a panic attack…

I guess, to use a "simpler brain" example - dogs are not capable of feeling anger. Anger is a complex social emotion that dogs just don't have. However a dog can clearly be aggressive. Any dog trainer will tell you, an aggressive/reactive dog is an anxious dog... it's not an angry dog.

I think that is on a basic level, the same mechanism in all mammals.

Has anyone on this thread taken imipramine, by any chance?

I think anxiety can manifest itself as anger but that doesn't mean anger is always the product of anxiety. Anger is a legitimate emotion in its own right which can sometimes be valid and sometimes be a problem. There are time when anger can actually do a lot of good. When it becomes a problem I think there can be many reasons for that and only some of them will be driven by anxiety

I went through a period of anxiety and panic attacks but been a while since I had one. Doc gave me propranolol and then citalopram but thankfully been a while since I had a bad panic attack...

I had a lot in my sleep that were like sleep paralysis l...they were horrid but I got to a point after a lot of research that I recognised what they were...both in sleep and awake and dealt with them better and they didn't last as long

Recently I thought I was, turns out it was really bad asthma that I didn't know I could have. I could not breath for **** and thankfully hub had an inhaler for his seasonal allergies and that at least kept me from the ER (A&E)... and now I'm on allergy meds daily (a habit I never had) and occasionally need an inhaler.

I'm sure you have..

what ever the big pharma BS it is

Yes but there's a difference between healthy situational anger and outbursts of rage; that's what I mean in the dog example. Dogs are not capable of the complex human experience that you're talking about here as anger. I'd also argue that the type of anger you're talking about is not one emotion but a confluence of several possible emotions; frustration, pride, protectiveness etc.

What is LA in this context?

But isn't anxiety just one of these emotions too that contributes to anger?

Erm.

Not a panic attack.

I can feel anxiety sometimes, but that's normally where it ends for me.