[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by BBXX

That's fair, personally though I think anyone willing to go on a public forum (forum or social) and name-call people on a public forum (TV) should be willing to take it. If we're willing to risk the person we're calling names seeing what we've called them, we should at least be prepared to take that risk for ourselves.

There is also a difference between calling out things people have said and certain behaviour traits and labelling them with the 'ist' based on just a few things we've witnessed them say. And I say that on behalf of all HMs.

This is just a general opinion, and not one I want to level closely at you though Mock as generally I find you a really fair FM and I very much enjoy reading what you have to say about all HMs

On the point of Ali/Marcello. I think you're really simplifying the definition of Misogyny/Misandry by thinking it simply as who someone doesn't get along with people of the opposite gender. Misogyny/Misandry isn't really about that.

You're calling Ali a misandrist because she has clashed with men. Well... she also hasn't clashed with men. She didn't clash with Dean or Nathan or Izzaz. Moreover, I think there is a distinct difference between clashing with men and clashing with men bout their maleness. Ali has clashed with Marcello, Khaled and Segun, but the clashes have been totally unrelated to the fact they are men.

On the flip side, the accusations of Marcello's misogyny aren't linked with him clashing with a woman at all. They're based on things he has said and the subject and context about women and/or their womanhood, which have at times been derogatory or demeaning. Specific thoughts that are in line with how Misogynists think and the types of things they say.

The only time Ali has ever spoken about maleness is to discuss Toxic Masculinity, which as we've discussed in depth before isn't about maleness or men. Her critique hasn't been about men, it's been about certain negative behaviour traits that some men exhibit that is closely linked with them being men.

Ali's discussion with Hanah the other day about men being subject to body shaming and being taken advantage by women in a financial capacity absolutely to not align with the thoughts of a Misandrist.

If Ali sees my posts and objects to them, then that's fair enough as she is the one that is being discussed by me in a negative light on this particular thread.

I don't believe that a Forum member should be accusing another member of "not liking strong women" because I dare to think something negative about their favourite Big Brother Housemate, I would get it more if I was hating on every woman in the series, or every woman bar Rosie and Martha (who did seem to not really be very strong willed) but that has not been the case.

- Sarah was my favourite, and she weren't exactly shy with clashes against the men in the house.

- I really like Emma and find her to be one of the funniest Housemates of the series.

- I was probably the number one Daze and Martha defender on here, feeling that both of them were being harshly treated by the public.

- I never went in really harsh on BP like I really should've for being incredibly dull, like I have done to Thomas tbf. Yet Liam's never accused me of being Ableist because he also doesn't give a **** about Thomas, so it doesn't concern him what I think of Thomas, or what I think about anyone other than Ali.

- And I did soften towards Lily as the series went along.

- And Hanah has my favourite saying of the series. Admittedly I do have issues with Hanah away from that though.

For me I'm willing to address any issues that people might have with what I've actually posted, not make belief stuff that hasn't even been remotely said.

And thanks for the compliment BBXX, I have enjoyed your posts as well, and the debates that we've both had with each other throughout the series, I have honestly really enjoyed it.

And I do still like Liam's contribution to the Forum (I always have) but I do strongly dislike him posting stuff about me that isn't remotely true.

And with Marcello's comments, I get why they can be viewed as Misogynistic tbf, and who knows he might have issues in that area that he needs to sort out when he gets out of the house, but by and large I do think that he just likes to make very controversial jokes (like Sarah ironically) so I don't really think that he is that Misogynistic as some of his detractors are thinking.

Admittedly his reason for nominating Rosie makes me think that there might be something possibly there though, along with his love of Trump that makes me think that he holds some politically incorrect opinions about feminism at the very least, and Misogyny at the very worst, I don't believe that he has an Incel mindset or a sex offender though, like I know that some people on here have accused him of throughout the series.

And with Ali I do just find it interesting that most of her targets have been men, I can't attack John James during BB11 for constantly targeting women, but not when I feel like it is being done the other way.

I do honestly appreciate this debate with you though BBXX.