[MTVN]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think he is actually only saying what a good few people think.
I actually said this myself 2 days ago, that what Cameron led the UK into with the French then got involved in as to Libya, have contributed in part to this situation now.
Were there a better situation in Libya and had we made sure there was too,then we could have been far better placed to sort out at that source people fleeing from other areas.

That is what Miliband is saying,not that Cameron is personally responsible for deaths but with more careful planning as to the Libya exercises, he certainly could have ensured a far more stable set up there.

As I said, I was saying exactly this 2 days ago, on here too, someone agreed, I will need to look back as to who,in saying they too wondered if Cameron and Sarkosy were now still pleased with their Libyan action.

I think a lot of people will be thinking the same actually.

Ed Miliband for instance has had a senior Minister saying he would stab the UK in the back as a Prime Minister, that seems acceptable to say however.

Ed Miliband, did not and would not have voted for action in Iraq, he opposed that and saw the chaos that came from our involvement there
David Cameron also saw the chaos that came from that, and he as the serving PM should have ensured that whatever he took part in as to Libya,resulted in nothing like the chaos after Iraq.
He didn't and now we have this disastrous affair,now he has his own Iraq really in a way.
He left Libya to become a worse place than it was before.

No one blames him for the deaths obviously but he does, in my view, bear a fair amount of responsibilty along with the French leader too,since they against the wishes of most of Europe got involved in Libya in the first place,for these horrific events unfolding now.

All I can say now further is, thank goodness Ed Miliband led Labour to oppose any involvement as to Syria,since this PM David Cameron would have escalated tensions and probably made matters even worse had he got his way to take action there too.

I applaud Ed Miliband today,I love it when people say what I am already thinking anyway.
Seriously though, I was against the Libyan exercises too,maybe Miliband would have been better not to support that too, however it would have still been done then anyway, with or without the support of any opposition parties.

The Conservatives supported the Iraq invasion, both times it was done, Cameron was right to say when he did not long ago that we should have looked at the consequences of that, as to what we left afterwards.

Well he should have learned from that and as PM made sure any mistakes along the same lines did not come into play after his Libyan action.
He failed to do so and now the world is facing in part, the effects of what he has sown there which are happening daily now as to these tragic losses of life.

I hope Cameron can live with himself,which is why he and Sarkosy should be ashamed of their action as to Libya.
Also the UK and French ought to be bending over backwards to do everything, not just enough, to sort this horrific mess out,not piling the pressure only on Italy.

For ill judged action,very badly planned as to the consequences and aftermath of same, there is now little to choose between Blair's Iraq situation and now David Cameron's Libyan actions,in my view.

Yes it was me who agreed with you, and not to blow my own trumpet but I have been talking about this ever since the possibility of intervening was first raised 3 or 4 years ago But the way in which Miliband has raised this issue is naked opportunism and nothing more. The failure of intervention was obvious very soon after Gaddafi's death; Libya's descent into chaos has been happening almost ever since. Not once has Miliband raised this in PMQs, not once has he brought the issue forward in a substantial way. Now he wants to talk about post-intervention planning? Why could that be? He was never keen to discuss it before, he was never keen to discuss it in regard to Iraq where he voted four times against an enquiry, and lets not forget he is the leader of the party which has a shameful foreign policy record in the last fifteen years.

And Miliband supported Libya intervention in the first place! In fact 557 MPs did, only 13 voted against it. So let's not get into a finger pointing game. I say again that the disaster of Libya was not the post-intervention planning, it was the decision to intervene in the first place.