Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky.
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I'd assume that she means she wants to be
considered a woman, because she feels like she is one and always been one. Or possibly that she wants to go through reassignment surgery. I don't know. I find it really hard to believe that anyone would put themselves through what transgender people go through on a whim. A tweet probably isn't the best form of communicating something so complex, or understanding what it is that makes a transgender person the way they are.
I've been reading a lot more recently both sides of the transgender/feminism debate because in all honesty I've never really seen them as being that connected, but seeing the strong opinions in here they obviously are, but what I don't really get is, what is it that is being taken away from women by allowing a transwoman to be considered a woman? I understand the arguments that they won't have experienced sexism and womens issues to the extent of women who were born female, but what actual rights are being taken away from women by including transwomen in that? That's something I can't find an answer to. I suppose you could say in this example it's the fact that a transwoman has a job that should have gone to a 'real' woman, but I still wouldn't see that as a right being taken away from women, as long as those women also had the opportunity to apply for the role. In terms of 'rights' they still would have been allowed to apply and carry it out had they been given it.
I've also been reading a bit about intersectional feminism and I wonder if feminism progressing to include transwomen is just the natural course of things as they become more accepted in society? I don't know though, I'd be interested to know what others think about that.
From the stuff I've read I think that the main crux of this debate comes down to whether or not you believe that gender identity is real, and that's where it's difficult because it's not something tangible and it's different in different people. Some people have no feelings relating to their gender, but for some people to go to the extent of having painful surgeries because of it, face mockery and insults because of it, kill themselves because of it, it surely has to exist and be overwhelming for some people. And even biological sex can be more complicated than just male/female. We know that intersex people exist (I know you said in the OP you didn't want to discuss intersex because of the small numbers of them, even though apparently there's actually more intersex people than there are transgender people
but I'd say it's relevant given how so many people equate gender to biological sex, but just the fact that intersex people exist, regardless of numbers, shows that it isn't that straight forward a thing.)
Anyway, if gender identity is real (which I believe it is, it just doesn't manifest the way it does for transgender people in the same way it does everyone else, or at all in most people) then is it really so bad for them to want the rest of society to regard them in the way they identify? Is that imposing an ideology or isn't it just natural, we all want people to view us as the person we feel that we are? Most of us just don't have to even think about that because it happens naturally. And is their inclusion within the group that they identify with really taking anything away from the people currently in that group? That's something I'm really keen to understand. I don't personally feel that a transman takes anything away from me being a man but I appreciate it's probably different for women because of feminism which is why I'm asking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitontheslide
i want to be a smurf, i am a smurf, i've always been a smurf  |
Smurfs don't have any genitals, it's probably a simpler existence tbh so good luck to you!