[arista]

Does not look good


[Billionaire businessman John Mills
attacked the two Labour grandees
for pandering to the left in their
leadership bids.
He also said Gordon Brown’s two former
Cabinet ministers are “not strong enough”
to take Labour in a new direction
and confront “the big problems Britain faces”.
The TV shopping tycoon also
dropped a strong hint he will
endorse their main rival,
rising Blairite star
Liz Kendall – and may even
back her campaign financially.
Mr Mills – who gave Labour £1.6million
in the last five years - told
The Sun: “Liz Kendall is much
more going back to attracting
business and middle England.]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...nd-Cooper.html

[joeysteele]

I am leaning to Liz Kendall anyway so I would agree with him.

I really like Andy Burnham but he should have got it in 2010,Yvette is a strong candidate but she will always be getting,'what is your husband Ed doing now', or being challenged on things he stood for as Chancellor and her views as to how right or wrong he was.

Liz Kendall could actually surprise everyone and something really good about her is, she listens to what people say,actually really listens to them she doesn't just hear them or pay them lip service.

[Kizzy]

Keep your money then... is it common for donors to dictate policy now?
Hmmmm :/

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I am leaning to Liz Kendall anyway so I would agree with him.

I really like Andy Burnham but he should have got it in 2010,Yvette is a strong candidate but she will always be getting,'what is your husband Ed doing now', or being challenged on things he stood for as Chancellor and her views as to how right or wrong he was.

Liz Kendall could actually surprise everyone and something really good about her is, she listens to what people say,actually really listens to them she doesn't just hear them or pay them lip service.

Fair Enough

[empire]

the labour party have no under standing about how the economy works, attacking small businesses, will kill any chance of finding jobs, some of them doners have caught on in how labour really thinks, why give them money to run you into the ground, labour have more public school mps than working class mps now, you can't compare them to the party of the old labour, none of them mps would know the price of bread and milk if it was brought to them,

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Keep your money then... is it common for donors to dictate policy now?
Hmmmm :/

It is the Sun Kizzy, it is likely a distorted version of what he really said in full.

I just never now get why anyone connected with Labour or for that matter the Lib Dems too , ever even talk to the Sun.

If I ever do set out to stand for election to parliament, the first paper I would have nothing to do with or say anything to is the Sun.
At least then I know they cannot twist any of my words,claiming I said same to them, or add their own bits and pieces of their lies and falsehoods to it too.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It is the Sun Kizzy, it is likely a distorted version of what he really said in full.

I just never now get why anyone connected with Labour or for that matter the Lib Dems too , ever even talk to the Sun.

If I ever do set out to stand for election to parliament, the first paper I would have nothing to do with or say anything to is the Sun.
At least then I know they cannot twist any of my words,claiming I said same to them, or add their own bits and pieces of their lies and falsehoods to it too.

Great point Joey, I never thought about that... Why is he talking to the sun? :/

[JoshBB]

I hope he stops paying them then. We need to stop living in a donocracy in which the parties will do anything to please their donors.

[Ross.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I am leaning to Liz Kendall anyway so I would agree with him.

I really like Andy Burnham but he should have got it in 2010,Yvette is a strong candidate but she will always be getting,'what is your husband Ed doing now', or being challenged on things he stood for as Chancellor and her views as to how right or wrong he was.

Liz Kendall could actually surprise everyone and something really good about her is, she listens to what people say,actually really listens to them she doesn't just hear them or pay them lip service.

Yeah I'm like you Joey, I'm really in favour of Liz Kendall getting the role as I think she's got potential to be a great leader and could very much surprise everyone.

[JoshBB]

Last I heard, Liz Kendall is to the right of the Labour party and is very much favours the ideology of market-driven policies, and wishes to return labour to the centre ground. Is that correct?

If so, she may as well write a suicide note on behalf of Labour in advance. It is obvious that nobody on the right will vote Labour, they are set in their views and many view them as commies anyway. In all honesty what she really ought to be doing is taking Labour back to its grassroots - begin to appeal back to the voters who have been left behind and gone to the greens & SNP, she needs to start taking on the xenophobia perpetuated by UKIP, not offering a watered down version. The same with cuts. what's the point of ousting the tories if all we're going to get is tory-lite?

I can vote in the next general election, and I will only consider voting Labour if they can return to being a party of morals and equal opportunity. Not this centre-right crap they're trying to push off as "centrist and sensible".

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Last I heard, Liz Kendall is to the right of the Labour party and is very much favours the ideology of market-driven policies, and wishes to return labour to the centre ground. Is that correct?

If so, she may as well write a suicide note on behalf of Labour in advance. It is obvious that nobody on the right will vote Labour, they are set in their views and many view them as commies anyway. In all honesty what she really ought to be doing is taking Labour back to its grassroots - begin to appeal back to the voters who have been left behind and gone to the greens & SNP, she needs to start taking on the xenophobia perpetuated by UKIP, not offering a watered down version. The same with cuts. what's the point of ousting the tories if all we're going to get is tory-lite?

I can vote in the next general election, and I will only consider voting Labour if they can return to being a party of morals and equal opportunity. Not this centre-right crap they're trying to push off as "centrist and sensible".

Blair's great success was in persuading people who never thought they would vote Labour ordinarily to do so, a lot of Conservatives included. 'Old' Labour have not won an election since 1974.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Blair's great success was in persuading people who never thought they would vote Labour ordinarily to do so, a lot of Conservatives included. 'Old' Labour have not won an election since 1974.

Blair was very clever in the way he won that election, but I don't see it working again. Many people are very angry towards this whole 'new labour' tactic and their policies. The politicians are even worse. Ed Balls.. Yvette Cooper.. Andy Burnham.. none of them seem to believe what they say. What's the point?

I'm not sure I can write a detailed response more than I have on why Labour needs to move back to the left, but it is something I really think would help them. And the politicians of the party need to really care about what they are saying, if you look at people such as Diane Abbott it really is no surprise why she is so popular within those associating themselves with socialism or just general left wing policies - because she feels strongly about it.

[the truth]

Yvette cooper lol 100% unelectable ..burnham no chance either

there is no real left and right. each policy is different.

nationalising the utilities should happen but has anyone got the guts

take welsh water the Only water company in wales ? a total monopoly with vat too ?
how the hell is that the free market?

[arista]

Originally Posted by the truth

Yvette cooper lol 100% unelectable ..burnham no chance either

there is no real left and right. each policy is different.

nationalising the utilities should happen but has anyone got the guts

take welsh water the Only water company in wales ? a total monopoly with vat too ?
how the hell is that the free market?

He is going to take the Winning slot.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

He is going to take the Winning slot.

2 weeks weeks ago,I would have said that too.
Listening to Labour supporters and members,now I would not bet on that at all.

I think Liz Kendall can bridge the divide between the right/centrist line and the left.
It is all very well having the right and fair policies, as many of Labour's was in the election in May.
However they can only remain policies if the party cannot gain power.

I have gone fully across the political divide myself,I would love to see Gas, Electricity, Water and the Railways all nationalised.
However,I know, had Labour advocated that in for this election, they would have likely done even worse.
The cost of re-nationalising such industries would also be enormous.
Blame the party that ever sold them off in the first place.
That was the real disaster for the users of such industries.

Dianne Abbot was mentioned too,she is a well liked MP and a good constituency MP, however had she been leader in this election, I think it would have resulted in a Conservative landslide.

Labour has to do 'some' of what Blair achieved,to win over the soft Conservative voters of the lower Midlands,Anglia and across the South.
Without losing its compassion and fairer elements to its overall policies.
They all could do that, Yvette as I said will be constantly questioned as to her husband Ed Balls, she will not be able to avoid that.

Andy Burnham will have the Sun on his back all the time after his helping expose their lies on Hillsborough and the slander they printed on their front pages as to that.
They will likely go for him more than they did Miliband.

Liz Kendall could avoid all that and actually be the one to get a just, fair, compassionate and more importantly inclusive for all, message across.

I couldn't and cannot stand Tony Blair,however he won 3 elections in a row all with good majorities,2, with unbelievable ones, although in 2005, it was a very poor mandate as to votes won as is the case now with this govt.
As much as I dislike him, I also feel he would have still been PM had he stayed on for the 2010 election too.
I guess he would have gone to the voters again before the crash really hit too.
Probably autumn 2007,when Brown should have gone to the voters too.

Labour probably,being realistic,is not going to win outright in 2020.
The new leader has to restore them to being at least the largest party,which would be much easier to achieve.
They will not do that in England,by a sharp lurch to the left as to policy, they have to work out and present the right and credible balance over the whole political spectrum.
More and more, I see Liz as the one who could just be successful as to that.

[arista]

Liz Vs Andy

then

Lets have a TV debate

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Liz Vs Andy

then

Lets have a TV debate

I think they would both be up for that but it would in fact, for fairness to all,have to be with all of whoever the candidates are in the end.

They all do have to get the support of 35 labour MPs at least to be able to run for the leadership,it may yet be there are only 3 candidates in the end..

[bots]

Its pretty simple really, if you want to capture the most votes, you need to target the centre ground, as that's where the majority of voters are positioned. The more you deviate from that position, the more votes you will lose.

The general standard of living and aspirational values of people are not what they were in the 50's so why would you target that set of values as a party. Its out dated, and doesn't make sense.

In my opinion, the new labour leader can have no ties with previous labour administrations, and needs to be above all else a communicator. Do that, and nothing will stop labour winning the next election.

[Kizzy]

If it's not ok for people to lean on the state then why are businesses allowed to lean on the state.
I've seen this clamor for the onus to be on businesses... why, why when we are all individuals and think as individuals are companies suddenly more important?

If you are a big business pay your staff a wage which removes them from state subsidisation.
If you are a small business have as many staff as you can support with a fair wage, that is how it always was prior to welfare, if you can only afford to run your business using staff who rely on governmental credit to remain in work it still evokes a feeling of benefit dependency as you are still reliant on the state even though working.

Why also are workers continuously moved out of tax? the Labour ethos is the working person living and contributing to society via expenditure and tax.... then let them pay some. even on minimum wage, how can you feel you are contributing to society and feel inclusive as tax payers if that duty is denied?
That sense of pride is then manifested by those who fall within the tax perimeters as resentment towards those who don't, towards those who don't work and also now the unskilled workers that do creating a divide.

[empire]

labour need to purge the party of blairites, or face what happend to the lib dems, milband failed to try and push them out, there are reasons why he failed to win the election, and this is one of them, new labour have no future with the working class voters of today, I can't see 2020 being any different than this one, they wanted mass immigration to help there voting control too number ten, this puts a question, that where are there loyalties are too, they got too complacent, in there attitude to say that they have a right to your vote, its the voters right to say that who should be in number ten, not the party,

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If it's not ok for people to lean on the state then why are businesses allowed to lean on the state.
I've seen this clamor for the onus to be on businesses... why, why when we are all individuals and think as individuals are companies suddenly more important?

If you are a big business pay your staff a wage which removes them from state subsidisation.
If you are a small business have as many staff as you can support with a fair wage, that is how it always was prior to welfare, if you can only afford to run your business using staff who rely on governmental credit to remain in work it still evokes a feeling of benefit dependency as you are still reliant on the state even though working.

Why also are workers continuously moved out of tax? the Labour ethos is the working person living and contributing to society via expenditure and tax.... then let them pay some. even on minimum wage, how can you feel you are contributing to society and feel inclusive as tax payers if that duty is denied?
That sense of pride is then manifested by those who fall within the tax perimeters as resentment towards those who don't, towards those who don't work and also now the unskilled workers that do creating a divide.

Excellent post Kizzy,some very strong and valid points there.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Last I heard, Liz Kendall is to the right of the Labour party and is very much favours the ideology of market-driven policies, and wishes to return labour to the centre ground. Is that correct?

If so, she may as well write a suicide note on behalf of Labour in advance. It is obvious that nobody on the right will vote Labour, they are set in their views and many view them as commies anyway. In all honesty what she really ought to be doing is taking Labour back to its grassroots - begin to appeal back to the voters who have been left behind and gone to the greens & SNP, she needs to start taking on the xenophobia perpetuated by UKIP, not offering a watered down version. The same with cuts. what's the point of ousting the tories if all we're going to get is tory-lite?

I can vote in the next general election, and I will only consider voting Labour if they can return to being a party of morals and equal opportunity. Not this centre-right crap they're trying to push off as "centrist and sensible".

Some of your most brilliant posts on this thread Josh - spoiled only by your misrepresentation of UKIP.

[empire]

russell brand told people not too vote, then at the last minute, he said to the people, too vote labour, either he has no clue in what he thinks, or he is part of the system, he practically spoon feeds it to people by telling them too vote for this party, john rotten was very spot on about him in saying that he is a bumhole, brand and milband talking in the same room, milband said that if he was pm, the cuts would of still happend, brand agreed too that, so russell would be so happy if labour got in, even if the cuts still happen, he seems too be the agent for the labour party, I can't believe that people fall for his crap, and still not get it,

[the truth]

Originally Posted by empire

russell brand told people not too vote, then at the last minute, he said to the people, too vote labour, either he has no clue in what he thinks, or he is part of the system, he practically spoon feeds it to people by telling them too vote for this party, john rotten was very spot on about him in saying that he is a bumhole, brand and milband talking in the same room, milband said that if he was pm, the cuts would of still happend, brand agreed too that, so russell would be so happy if labour got in, even if the cuts still happen, he seems too be the agent for the labour party, I can't believe that people fall for his crap, and still not get it,

agreed, hes an idiot. but a very very very dangerous idiot who will influence millions of young people into doing the wrong things, no doubt inspiring many to take drugs too