[Glenn.]

Leave or remain?

[MB.]

Psst there's quite a long thread on this

(...assuming that the people who voted in that poll haven't changed their opinions since then)

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by MB.

Psst there's quite a long thread on this

(...assuming that the people who voted in that poll haven't changed their opinions since then)

Shut up.

[Livia]

Leave.

[Denver]

Out without a doubt

[T*]

if i could vote i'd vote leave

[Firewire]

Not voting, I'm on holiday and couldn't be arsed applying for postal voting because my printer's broken.

But I would to remain.

[Ninastar]

i read on facebook that if i vote leave I am a racist so i dont want to leave

[Ninastar]

im joking of course

[Smithy]

Not voting bc Guernsey but I'd vote to stay, if Nigel farage and Katy Hopkins want to leave then you know it's the stupid thing to do

[Jack_]

Remain.

I don't trust this government to protect the workers and human rights that are enshrined within EU law (the best benefit of being in the EU and has been barely mentioned in this ****ing dreadful campaign on all sides with the economy, trade and immigration recited ad nauseam).

I also appreciate the benefits we're entitled to like free movement, and the caps they continue to place on mobile phone company pricing.

Plus I don't have this inflated sense of superiority that a lot of British people still seem to have in thinking we're still some ****ing empire that can just do its own thing and everyone in Europe, America and the rest of the world is going to bow down at our feet and do whatever we demand. No, outside of Europe we're a tiny little irrelevant island that's largely hated.

So yes, remain.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Remain.

I don't trust this government to protect the workers and human rights that are enshrined within EU law (the best benefit of being in the EU and has been barely mentioned in this ****ing dreadful campaign on all sides with the economy, trade and immigration recited ad nauseam).

I also appreciate the benefits we're entitled to like free movement, and the caps they continue to place on mobile phone company pricing.

Plus I don't have this inflated sense of superiority that a lot of British people still seem to have in thinking we're still some ****ing empire that can just do its own thing and everyone in Europe, America and the rest of the world is going to bow down at our feet and do whatever we demand. No, outside of Europe we're a tiny little irrelevant island that's largely hated.
So yes, remain.

Wow... you have a very skewed view of the world and the UK's position in it.

Gratifying to see the Remainers are largely on holiday and won't be voting...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

Wow... you have a very skewed view of the world and the UK's position in it.

Gratifying to see the Remainers are largely on holiday and won't be voting...

'Skewed' is an understatement. It's sad and worrying.

[Rob!]

If I'm perfectly honest, I have no idea. Mainly because I fully admit I have no idea what will happen either way. What I do know is that there are people that I consider to be absolute bastards in the public eye who want out so by that logic I say remain.
I think there are quite a lot of voters (and no I am not including anybody on this forum in this statement) that want out because they see it as a way of getting the immigration crisis under control (or in their mind, "kicking out the foreigners," a phrase that has actually been said to me more than once) and know nothing more about it and anybody who doesn't think that at least 30% of voters for out don't fall into that category are kidding themselves.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Remain.

I don't trust this government to protect the workers and human rights that are enshrined within EU law (the best benefit of being in the EU and has been barely mentioned in this ****ing dreadful campaign on all sides with the economy, trade and immigration recited ad nauseam).

I also appreciate the benefits we're entitled to like free movement, and the caps they continue to place on mobile phone company pricing.

Plus I don't have this inflated sense of superiority that a lot of British people still seem to have in thinking we're still some ****ing empire that can just do its own thing and everyone in Europe, America and the rest of the world is going to bow down at our feet and do whatever we demand. No, outside of Europe we're a tiny little irrelevant island that's largely hated.

So yes, remain.

Good post Jack_

I too have found great disillusionment with people I thought more balanced even some in my family.

I am not in anyway an isolationist or a separatist,the days of old are far gone but some think we can just jump into old shoes and walk where we did decades ago.
That is why I will vote to remain and not fall prey to the leave sides endless ifs,maybe's and don't knows as to what will really happen for the UK if out.
I know what it is like in the EU,and so I see fewer risks in than out.

I have no doubt at all the UK out of the EU can stand on its own feet,I fear however that while standing it will not know which way to turn or where to walk to,or even find all it hopes too either, so end up going really nowhere.

That's a gamble I refuse to put the UK and its future generations through as to even the tiniest risk.
I also think as quitters we will be even more disliked.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Good post Jack_

I too have found great disillusionment with people I thought more balanced even some in my family.

I am not in anyway an isolationist or a separatist,the days of old are far gone but some think we can just jump into old shoes and walk where we did decades ago.
That is why I will vote to remain and not fall prey to the leave sides endless ifs,maybe's and don't knows as to what will really happen for the UK if out.
I know what it is like in the EU,and so I see fewer risks in than out.

I have no doubt at all the UK out of the EU can stand on its own feet,I fear however that while standing it will not know which way to turn or where to walk to,or even find all it hopes too either, so end up going really nowhere.

That's a gamble I refuse to put the UK and its future generations through as to even the tiniest risk.
I also think as quitters we will be even more disliked.

so instead of fighting to change our own government , give up and try to change an unelected parliament of 30 countries and 500 million+ people and tens of thosuands of politcians?
lol

totally illogical and totally undemocratic and wholly ineffective

keep sovereignty and keep democracy and simply fight the government on every single issue...thats how democracy works, you should throw it away for ANYTHING....least of all a wasteful bankrupt corporate cartel of unelected crooks

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by the truth

so instead of fighting to change our own government , give up and try to change an unelected parliament of 30 countries and 500 million+ people and tens of thosuands of politcians?
lol

totally illogical and totally undemocratic and wholly ineffective

keep sovereignty and keep democracy and simply fight the government on every single issue...thats how democracy works, you should not throw it away for ANYTHING....least of all a wasteful bankrupt corporate cartel of un elected crooks

Fantastic post!

[kirklancaster]

Out. Out. Out. Out. Out. Out. Out. Out. Out. Out. Out. Out.out. Out. Out.

[jaxie]

We joined a common market and it turned into an ideology, a political experiment. The ideology is shared by a core group who will see and hear nothing that takes them from the path. If your interests lay away or off this path they are not willing to work with you or around the straight path. Those who don't share the ideology are being dragged along. This is never going to work, there is no compromise, no treaty change. The UK aren't the only people discontent with this. That doesn't mean it won't happen, that means forcing it through regardless of consequences. How can you force people along a political path they don't want? It smacks of dictatorship and surely it's bound to fail. But at what cost?

The single currency has been a failure and some countries are paying a very heavy price for that, partly self inflicted by their government yes but whole nations are being financially slaughtered for those mistakes. We cannot be without some sympathy for the people of Greece nor grateful that we didn't enter the euro like many of those in remain wanted us to. Who would want to face the prospect of an old age in poverty with very little to no pensions?

The EU costs more than it brings in wealth to us. It has destroyed our fishing industry and there are whole communities that have never recovered. So much for how it brings jobs, is that bringing with one hand and taking with another? Not only did it destroy our fishing industry with bad policies over many years it led to our oceans being overfished and cod becoming an endangered species in our waters.

We don't need to be in the EU to visit other countries nor to live in them if we choose to do so. Many British people live and work in Dubai, Dubai is not part of the EU so when people say if we leave I wouldn't be able to live or work there is preposterous.

Those who want to remain often brand those who want to leave racists because the total lack of EU border control we have now concerns them and yet we have situations with so little control over our borders that a man convicted of murdering his wife was able to come here and murder a 14 year old girl after release from prison. IMO there is nothing wrong with being able to choose who comes to this country, it's not racist to have a little concern with who enters your borders and I find convicted murderers less than desirable personally. We have enough home grown ones, we dont need extras.

And another stone thrown is that we want to be isolated. This couldn't be further from the truth, I think rather that we want to be part of the wider world instead of being forced into a box with a failed political experiment, stuck without democracy. I would rather be able to sack the government with my vote if they do me wrong, thanks all the same.

We are the biggest importer of German cars in the EU, is the government of Germany who clearly run the EU really going to cut us off with no trade if we leave? I don't think it likely.

If we were asked to join now, looking honestly we would not. We must leave. As a people the ever closer union thing will never work for us we are too independent and I'm not sure it should. In 1939 who else stood on the edge of Europe and said no? Perhaps someone needs to be independent should we need to do so again so that those forging ahead with their ideology are forced to realise that you can lead the horses to your water, but you can't make them drink up.

The EU will never be reformed because those in the driving seat don't want it and we have no hope of them ever listening to us and what we want. It's clear they view us as a nuisance at best. And mark my words the US EU trade deal is coming and it will adversely affect the NHS. Are we willing to have EU rules and regulations in the NHS?

That's me for leave then. I don't care if I'm in bed with Nigel Farage or the Monster Loonies. Remain aren't without their cranks too, Eddie Izzard.

Apologies as I have been tweaking what I wanted to say and correcting typos for a bit so those quoting me may not have it all.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Collaborate to remain but apply the Leave campaign's controlled border idea.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

so instead of fighting to change our own government , give up and try to change an unelected parliament of 30 countries and 500 million+ people and tens of thosuands of politcians?
lol

totally illogical and totally undemocratic and wholly ineffective

keep sovereignty and keep democracy and simply fight the government on every single issue...thats how democracy works, you should throw it away for ANYTHING....least of all a wasteful bankrupt corporate cartel of unelected crooks

If we, as the UK, have thrown anything away it has been done and allowed to be done by the govts we elected here in the UK of all persuasions.

I do not blame the EU for that,I blame those govts,which in fact,the current one, no matter its heartlessness and extreme policies, I cannot get rid of either,under this outdated electoral system and while the far South only of England remains a virtual one party State and getting even worse as to that.

I have issues with the EU and want it reformed, the UK cannot reform it any more if out of it,however I hate far more most of what the last 4 elected UK govts have done over the last 15 years, than anything the EU has.

I wouldn't actually be that confident if I was you that even by leaving you would get back what you hope for as to immigration or other conditions.

The UK may on paper gain around Ł170 million a week, a pittance in govt monetary terms.
What it then possibly would lose in real success,credibility,status and influence in the World, not just as to the EU, could be far bigger.

There you have my opinion anyway, and just before you come back at me and say it, I am sure what I have said is just more of what you would term as nonsense from me.

However we will see, and I would like to see some sort of insurance that if all goes wrong once out, the leave campaigns are held accountably responsible for same for their misleading of the voters on this issue.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

If we, as the UK, have thrown anything away it has been done and allowed to be done by the govts we elected here in the UK of all persuasions.

I do not blame the EU for that,I blame those govts,which in fact,the current one, no matter its heartlessness and extreme policies, I cannot get rid of either,under this outdated electoral system and while the far South only of England remains a virtual one party State and getting even worse as to that.

I have issues with the EU and want it reformed, the UK cannot reform it any more if out of it,however I hate far more most of what the last 4 elected UK govts have done over the last 15 years, than anything the EU has.

I wouldn't actually be that confident if I was you that even by leaving you would get back what you hope for as to immigration or other conditions.

The UK may on paper gain around Ł170 million a week, a pittance in govt monetary terms.
What it then possibly would lose in real success,credibility,status and influence in the World, not just as to the EU, could be far bigger.

There you have my opinion anyway, and just before you come back at me and say it, I am sure what I have said is just more of what you would term as nonsense from me.

However we will see, and I would like to see some sort of insurance that if all goes wrong once out, the leave campaigns are held accountably responsible for same for their misleading of the voters on this issue.

[Tozzie]

Originally Posted by the truth

so instead of fighting to change our own government , give up and try to change an unelected parliament of 30 countries and 500 million+ people and tens of thosuands of politcians?
lol

totally illogical and totally undemocratic and wholly ineffective

keep sovereignty and keep democracy and simply fight the government on every single issue...thats how democracy works, you should throw it away for ANYTHING....least of all a wasteful bankrupt corporate cartel of unelected crooks

Good post

[kirklancaster]

Here's a new song which I am recording in time to be played before the 23rd. Play the backing track and sing along to it as you dance. It's a lot more fun than listening to Cameron and Osborne's B.S 'Better Off In The EU' lies.

CAM THE SHAM AND THE SCAREHO'S

"Sullied Bullies"

Youtube video

Uno, dos, one, two, tres, quatro
Osborne told Cameron, he had a surprise.
“The pubic's started rumbling, all our fecking lies.”
We're Sullied Bullies, Sullied Bulliies,
Sullied Bullies, Sullied Bullies, Sullied Bullies.

Cameron told Osborne, "That's gonna hurt our campaign” .
“We need a diversion, so attack Boris again”.
We're Sullied Bullies, Sullied Bulliies,
Sullied Bullies, Sullied Bullies, Sullied Bullies.

Osborne told Cameron, "That's the thing to do.”
But we can still keep lying and scaring the uk too ."
We're Sullied Bullies, Sullied Bulliies,
Sullied Bullies, Sullied Bullies,Sullied Bullies.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Good post Jack_

I too have found great disillusionment with people I thought more balanced even some in my family.

I am not in anyway an isolationist or a separatist,the days of old are far gone but some think we can just jump into old shoes and walk where we did decades ago.
That is why I will vote to remain and not fall prey to the leave sides endless ifs,maybe's and don't knows as to what will really happen for the UK if out.
I know what it is like in the EU,and so I see fewer risks in than out.

I have no doubt at all the UK out of the EU can stand on its own feet,I fear however that while standing it will not know which way to turn or where to walk to,or even find all it hopes too either, so end up going really nowhere.

That's a gamble I refuse to put the UK and its future generations through as to even the tiniest risk.
I also think as quitters we will be even more disliked.

You are making the biggest gamble if you stay.