[Shaun]

Scotland could become the first part of the UK to introduce gay marriage after the SNP government announced plans to make the change.

Ministers confirmed they would bring forward a bill on the issue, indicating the earliest ceremonies could take place by the start of 2015.

Political leaders, equality organisations and some faith groups welcomed introducing same-sex marriage.

But it was strongly opposed by the Catholic Church and Church of Scotland.

The announcement was made in the wake of a government consultation which produced a record 77,508 responses.

Same-sex couples in Scotland currently have the option to enter into civil partnerships and the Holyrood government has insisted no part of the religious community would be forced to hold same-sex weddings in churches.

The Scottish government said;

it would work with UK ministers to amend equality laws to protect celebrants from legal or disciplinary action if they refuse to take part or speak out against same-sex ceremonies.
a bill would be brought forward to the Scottish Parliament later this year to bring in the change.

Scotland's deputy first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, said: "We are committed to a Scotland that is fair and equal and that is why we intend to proceed with plans to allow same-sex marriage and religious ceremonies for civil partnerships - we believe that this is the right thing to do.

She went on: "The Scottish government has already made clear that no religious body will be compelled to conduct same-sex marriages and we reiterate that today. Such protection is provided for under existing equality laws.

"However, our view is that to give certainty on protection for individual celebrants taking a different view from a religious body that does agree to conduct same-sex marriages, an amendment will be required to the UK Equality Act."

The Scottish government said it was now going ahead with another consultation to consider what extra measures are needed to guarantee freedom of speech, including the protection of religious beliefs of teachers and parents in schools.

Ministers said the Scottish Catholic Education Service would continue to decide on the faith content of the curriculum in Catholic denominational schools.

Welcoming the government's approach, Tom French, policy co-ordinator for the Equality Network, said: "Same-sex marriage is about equality and freedom - the freedom for couples, and religious and humanist groups that want to, to celebrate same-sex marriages, but equally, upholding the freedom of other religious groups to say no to same-sex marriages.

"That's the right way for Scotland to deal with the different opinions on this."

The Church of Scotland, which will report on its own investigation of the issue in May 2013, expressed concern the government was rushing ahead with its plans.

The Rev Alan Hamilton, convener of the Church of Scotland legal questions committee, said: "We are acutely aware that opinions differ among our own members and that many people are anxious and hurt in the current situation.

"We believe homophobia to be sinful and we reaffirm our strong pastoral commitment to all people in Scotland, regardless of sexual orientation or beliefs."

He added: "We are concerned the government will legislate without being able to effectively protect religious bodies or their ministers whose beliefs prevent them from celebrating civil-partnerships or same-sex marriages."

A spokesman for the Catholic Church in Scotland said: "The Scottish government is embarking on a dangerous social experiment on a massive scale.

"We strongly suspect that time will show the Church to have been completely correct in explaining that same-sex sexual relationships are detrimental to any love expressed within profound friendships."

Civil partnerships in Scotland offer the same legal treatment as marriage, but are still seen as distinct from marriage.

The UK government, which is consulting on changing the status of civil ceremonies to allow gay and lesbian couples in England and Wales to get married, wants to make the change by 2015.

Gay marriage consultation

The Scottish government held a public consultation into the issue of same-sex marriage.
It had the biggest response of any Scottish government consultation.
There were 77,508 responses in total, with 14,779 from outside Scotland.
Some 64% of those who responded [including postcard and petition responses] said they were against same-sex marriage.
Excluding postcard and petition responses to the consultation from within Scotland the outcome shows 65% were in favour and 35% against.

Same sex marriages will not be conducted in Scotland before 2015.

Scotland's deputy first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, has confirmed that the start of that year is the earliest new legislation would take effect.

That could bring the Scottish government's timetable into line with UK government plans to change the law in England and Wales.

Ms Sturgeon said it was "entirely feasible and entirely conceivable" that legislation would be going through the Scottish and UK parliaments at roughly the same time.

The UK government's consultation on allowing civil marriages for gay and lesbian couples closed in June 2012.

The coalition is analysing the results before publishing its formal response but Prime Minster, David Cameron, has promised legislation before the next election.

The Scottish government's plans go further. It wants to allow both civil and religious ceremonies, with opt-outs for religious organisations that do not support same sex marriage.

Ms Sturgeon said changes to the UK Equality Act are needed for Scottish legislation to be effective.

The Home Office said: "If changes are needed, they will be made."

It may be the ministry regards passage of its own legislation on same sex marriage as the most convenient way to do this.

If reform happens in Scotland at the same time as in England and Wales, it will allow the Scottish and UK governments to lean on each other in responding to criticism.

There are no plans to allow same sex couple to marry in Northern Ireland.

[Mystic Mock]

No offence but out of all the British countries I did not expect Scotland to make the first steps towards gay marriage, good news though.

[Saph]

^ me neither. I'm glad too

[Shaun]

Scotland have a much more liberal government than England and Northern Ireland do - I imagine Wales will probably put similar plans in motion soon.

[Z]

I kind of think this is all a bit of a moot point and I've never understood why there's such clamour for gay marriage. The religious bodies that oppose it aren't going to suddenly become tolerant because of legislation; so if they refuse service to gay couples are they going to be harangued through equality laws until they're forced into it? What if they say no and gay couples aren't able to get a marriage anywhere in the country? Then they have a 'right' that they can't actually have. It's a total stand off and I just think it's pointless. Half the people who get married in a church only do so because they want the big white dress in a grand hall, not because they're religious - there's such a crisis of faith in the UK that that's my honest opinion. Argh I could rant about this for hours, it's such a pointless struggle for nothing. Either way, one group will be left very bitterly disappointed by legal outcomes.

[Niall]

This is awesome. Hopefully it'll push the rest of the country into doing the same.

Originally Posted by Zee

I kind of think this is all a bit of a moot point and I've never understood why there's such clamour for gay marriage. The religious bodies that oppose it aren't going to suddenly become tolerant because of legislation; so if they refuse service to gay couples are they going to be harangued through equality laws until they're forced into it? What if they say no and gay couples aren't able to get a marriage anywhere in the country? Then they have a 'right' that they can't actually have. It's a total stand off and I just think it's pointless. Half the people who get married in a church only do so because they want the big white dress in a grand hall, not because they're religious - there's such a crisis of faith in the UK that that's my honest opinion. Argh I could rant about this for hours, it's such a pointless struggle for nothing. Either way, one group will be left very bitterly disappointed by legal outcomes.

There are religious gays you know (myself being one of them). (I've been through that whole argument in another thread anyway and I really can't be arsed going over it again however.)

[Marc]

Sorry but am I being retarded? I thought same sex couples could get married already?

[GypsyGoth]

I guess gods belong to all people who believe in them and not just the priests. So maybe if a religion is allowed to preach and recruit in a country, it should have to obey the laws of that country.

Originally Posted by Marc

Sorry but am I being retarded? I thought same sex couples could get married already?

In civil ceremonies yep.


Also I think it's a good step forward

[Black Dagger]

Originally Posted by Marc

Sorry but am I being retarded? I thought same sex couples could get married already?

Civil partnership... it's not technically classed as a 'marriage'

Well done Scotland <3.

[Marc]

Ahh right, okay sorry

See I thought it already happened.. because it's normal in my eyes.

[BizarreCharisma]

I don't get it when the homophobes bang on about the "Sactity of Marriage" when there are couples getting divorced after less than a year these days, so why would letting gay couples marry change anything?

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Marc

Sorry but am I being retarded? I thought same sex couples could get married already?

Technically, they can but it's called civil partnership. So basically if you're in a civil partnership you have the same rights as in a marriage but it's given a different title.

[Redway]

Anyway, this is a great step forward and I'm glad to hear this. Hopefully more places in the world - including the rest of the UK - follows on. It's only right that we're all given equal rights.

[bbfan1991]

Originally Posted by Redway

Anyway, this is a great step forward and I'm glad to hear this. Hopefully more places in the world - including the rest of the UK - follows on. It's only right that we're all given equal rights.

I agree with this.

[the truth]

so do individual churches have the right to refuse a gay couples request to get married in their church? If for example a Church in Glasgow was asked to perform a gay marriage and they said no we dont do gay marriages, could the couple take legal action against that Church?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by the truth

so do individual churches have the right to refuse a gay couples request to get married in their church? If for example a Church in Glasgow was asked to perform a gay marriage and they said no we dont do gay marriages, could the couple take legal action against that Church?

I would think so.

[Jords]

Originally Posted by Marc

Ahh right, okay sorry

See I thought it already happened.. because it's normal in my eyes.

I thought it had already happened too :S

[arista]

Originally Posted by Black Dagger

Civil partnership... it's not technically classed as a 'marriage'

Well done Scotland <3.

Its the same time England is doing it.

So Well Done England first.

[iRyan]

Originally Posted by Zee

I kind of think this is all a bit of a moot point and I've never understood why there's such clamour for gay marriage. The religious bodies that oppose it aren't going to suddenly become tolerant because of legislation; so if they refuse service to gay couples are they going to be harangued through equality laws until they're forced into it? What if they say no and gay couples aren't able to get a marriage anywhere in the country? Then they have a 'right' that they can't actually have. It's a total stand off and I just think it's pointless. Half the people who get married in a church only do so because they want the big white dress in a grand hall, not because they're religious - there's such a crisis of faith in the UK that that's my honest opinion. Argh I could rant about this for hours, it's such a pointless struggle for nothing. Either way, one group will be left very bitterly disappointed by legal outcomes.

I'm not sure how it is in the UK, but here in America gay people want marriage as opposed to civil partnerships because civil partnerships don't offer the same legal benefits that marriage does, I believe.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by iRyan

I'm not sure how it is in the UK, but here in America gay people want marriage as opposed to civil partnerships because civil partnerships don't offer the same legal benefits that marriage does, I believe.

You know, that explains so much...

[Ellen]

Originally Posted by iRyan

I'm not sure how it is in the UK, but here in America gay people want marriage as opposed to civil partnerships because civil partnerships don't offer the same legal benefits that marriage does, I believe.

A civil partnership in the uk has the same legal rights has a marriage, the only difference is the name.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Ellen

A civil partnership in the uk has the same legal rights has a marriage, the only difference is the name.

Exactly.

If they do legalise gay "marriage" this will in no way force the church into conducting gay marriages. And if the gay lobby tried to force the church under equality law, then in the name of equality, the Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc. etc. etc. will be all forced to legalise it also. This will not happen.

Niall is right, there was a whole discussion about this on another thread, so at the risk of going over the same ground... I see no reason why religious gay people could not have a civil marriage and a religious blessing, like divorced heterosexual couples have been doing for decades and decades without feeling like they were being marginalised.

[Tom4784]

My thoughts are similar to Livia's really.

If I was going to marry a man I wouldn't get caught up in what the official ceremony was called, I'd be more bothered about getting the same rights as a straight couple and seeing as they already already do I find the rest of it a little pedantic.

[Shaun]

I find it sad that the pursuit of total equality is seen as pedantic

[Munchkins]

How lovely
hopefully we will follow the same