[Z]

There is no right answer to any of the stuff I'm about to post, but I would be really grateful if people could suggest some ideas for what I could do, because as you'll understand after you've read this, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Part 1:

Spoiler:

Some of you may remember me posting a while back about a dilemma I was having; my family has spectacularly fallen apart, and at the time I didn't really give too much away because it was a very sensitive topic, and I really, really appreciated all the advice and kind words people had for me, and now I'm ready to talk about what happened.

The reason I'm turning to TiBB is because I can't ask my family and I can't ask my best friend (more on that in Part 2) and it somehow feels easier talking to people who don't know any of the people in question, because I feel like you'll give me more honest responses than any of my family or friends, who will only tell me what they think I want to hear.

My older brother met his girlfriend when he was 21 and she was 18, in 2000. In 2008 they got married in Italy - her family hired out a massive villa for all these extended family members and we were there for a week. My parents threw a massive wedding reception party when we were back home. I really like my sister-in-law, I have a laugh with her, and they seem to have a really, really good relationship. As far as I knew, things were fine and it wasn't something I ever thought about.

My sister-in-law seems to have an alcohol problem, or perhaps it just seems that way, but there's a lot of evidence stacked up in favour of that idea. She got really drunk on her wedding night and went to bed early. She got so drunk at the wedding reception my parents threw that she was put to bed before half the guests turned up. She turns up to dinner pissed as a fart and goes home again. She quit her job over a year ago because my brother's earning so much money, and I think the assumption was that she was going to have a baby. That's not happened, she just gets drunk with her mum or her sister or her friends all day, every day. She can't drive, she doesn't cook, she doesn't clean, she doesn't normally leave the flat... what does she do? This was a question my parents had privately been asking themselves for years, but my mum was of the opinion that if she made him happy; bringing it up would only drive him away.

That remained the case until one particular occasion when she turned up drunk to a family meal and went straight back to their flat (obviously my brother had to drive her) without so much as saying hi to anyone, literally she came in the door and left again. But then, my brother came back. He sat and spoke to my parents for a very long time about how worried he was, and they listened. My mum gave him some advice. He went home.

His birthday last year was the real breaking point. His wife's step father needed to go to a hospital appointment on my brother's birthday; and my brother volunteered to take him. My mum had gone to a great deal of effort to make him a birthday meal, and at the last moment he'd cancelled and said it was because he had to take his father-in-law to this appointment. My mum was furious at him and asked why he was so determined to bend over backwards for their family and not be a part of his own. My brother then decided to tell his wife everything my mum had said about her; which, I should stress, she'd only said because he'd asked her for advice. Well, that didn't go down well, and things went from bad to worse to hostile in a very short space of time. This was February 2012. I was still away in Germany and really honestly didn't know about any of this. My parents were still keeping quiet and my brother has always been distant from my other brother and I. My parents went on holiday for my mum's birthday in summer; and I spent my birthday with friends here in my flat; so the absence of my older brother at these two events did not occur to me.

December 2012, I was home for Christmas and wanted to see my older brother. I hadn't seen him properly in 12 months. I went over to his for pizza and a couple of drinks, I had a really nice time, then I went to hang out with my friends. I came home the next day and my mum was crying her eyes out because I'd gone to go see him, which is when I started to find out some of what had been going on in my absence. Even still, all I felt was bad that I'd put my foot in it, I didn't know or feel enough to be taking sides.

I returned to uni, and received an email in January from my dad (and posted on here at that time) basically telling me that he and my mum had written my brother out of their will. In their eyes, he's no longer part of the family, and my other brother and I are not to have anything to do with him, because if we do, it will greatly upset them. At the time, I felt like I was stuck between choosing my parents or my brother and I didn't know what to do. That feeling has changed over the last two months. I've never been close to my older brother. I'm much closer to my younger brother; but out of the two of us I'm closer to our older brother. Standard middle child outlook. As I said, I don't see him often. It's not difficult for me to avoid seeing him for great lengths of time, but I don't want to fall out with him because I don't have a problem with him.

My dad, the next time I saw him after he sent the email, told me some other stories that I didn't know about. My sister in law and her sister had seen my mum in the supermarket on Christmas Eve. They were (naturally...) drunk. They shouted abuse at her, in public. I came home for Christmas on Christmas Eve, after my mum had been on the receiving end of some abuse, and I wouldn't have ever known had he not told me. She's put on such a brave face throughout all of this.

My mum brought my older brother up by herself. Her first husband, his dad, left her and my brother when he was only a kid, and she worked some really ****ty jobs, scraping money together to buy a flat, a fridge, a sofa and a TV. And that's all she had. They didn't even have beds. My brother slept on the sofa and my mum slept on the floor. She refused to go on benefits and let that become her life. She had to leave school when she was 16 because her family was so poor and they needed everyone to bring income into the house. She saved and saved and did everything for my brother. Then she met my dad, and he looked after my brother as if he was his own. But it was always my mum who had brought my brother up, and my dad takes no credit for the money she's saved over the years by working her ass off. I love my mum so, so much and I'll always be grateful to her for everything she's ever done to me; and to see my older brother turn around and betray her so badly; to let that manipulative drunk mock my mum, has devastated my family.

He doesn't have friends anymore. All of his other friends have wives, they're starting families, they live in houses and they all hang out when they can. My brother goes to work, he does the food shopping, he cooks the dinner, he cleans the flat and he goes to bed. They live in a flat. He's absolutely loaded, money's not a problem for him anymore, but he lives this reclusive lifestyle where his entire world is looking after his 31 year old wife who's acting like someone my age. Actually, no, not even someone my age (21 years old) would be getting so drunk on such a regular basis. Absolutely no way.

My parents and I have had long discussions about this. They wonder if they should have said something to him, about her, much sooner than they did. I told them it wouldn't have made a difference, the reaction was always going to be the same; but the timing of it has meant that their relationship has only grown stronger while his relationship with us has diminished. If they'd told him she was trouble when they'd been going out for a year, perhaps it would have ended. Perhaps it wouldn't have. It breaks my heart knowing that my brother, whether he thinks it/realises it or not, is trapped in a dead end marriage. His wife couldn't be a mother. She couldn't give up alcohol for 9 months, or smoking, or care for another human being. She can't even care for herself. She can't expect my brother to look after the baby as well, because there isn't enough time in the day. She'd probably get her mum to look after it. And that would only break my mum's heart even more. Their family take priority over ours; Christmases and birthdays aren't divided between families, it's always them over us. My mum just looks sad all the time. She's living her dream right now, studying photography, and she always looks like she's about to start crying. I want to punch him in the face, I swear to God, he's breaking her heart every single day. Why the **** is he doing this to us? All she ever did was try and help him, try and do the best for him, and he does this to her.

But this leads me onto Part 2 of my problem...

Part 2:

Spoiler:

My best friend and I have been inseparable since the day we met. It was our first day of secondary school. We were 12 years old. I know the exact date we met, I remember our first conversation. We were in the same form class at school and mostly the same classes, we've been on holiday together, we lived together for two years, people know us as a duo.

I went abroad to Germany as part of my degree. I knew things would change while I was away because that's life. I had been living with him before I left, but while I was away, I knew that I couldn't live with him again because he graduates this year, whereas I still have another year to go, and I'd be without a flat and flatmates in my final year which isn't ideal. I'm sure I could have found something else, but some other friends of mine wanted to get a flat with me; friends who were going to be around for the same length of time as me, so I decided that was what I was going to do. In November of 2011, he started seeing this girl, and I met her when I was at home for Christmas and again when I was back home in February. They seemed (and still do seem) like a great couple. I've never seen him so happy. They spend all their time together, and seeing them together now, you can tell it's probably going to last for a long time.

Since coming back to uni, I've started to get the feeling she doesn't like me. She won't look at me or talk to me if I'm in a room with her. But I'm not often in a room with her. I barely see my best friend anymore. I came back from Germany and he was away for most of the summer on holiday with his parents, and his girlfriend. By August, we were both back down here at uni, and almost any time I wanted to hang out, he would bail, saying he had to work on his dissertation. A little early, but fair enough, better to get it started before going back to uni. He's consistently used it as an excuse to bail from hanging out with me and the rest of our friends ever since. The dissertation was due in earlier this week; the last time I'd asked him to do something he bailed, again. So I asked him if he wanted to hang out tonight, and he said he had a driving lesson early in the morning, but did I want to go for lunch on Saturday. This has become the routine now. We do lunch together. I'm not part of his life, I get updates on it. I see him less and less. The really sad thing is that we still get on as brilliantly as we always have done. We've not changed as people so dramatically that we no longer have anything in common. He just won't hang out with me anymore.

I started to feel really needy after a few months of this sort of reaction. At New Year, he said he would "probably" be able to come to mine for a bit, but then he'd have to go elsewhere. He ended up coming and staying past the bells until about 1am. I was so pleased. Then I found out his girlfriend was in Spain. No wonder he had time for me. Is it needy to want to see your best friend more often than just a "catch up lunch" once every four weeks? Is it needy to want to tell him about everything I just mentioned in Part 1, and to get a response beyond "oh really?" when you mention that your brother's fallen out with your parents and it's a really big deal? He acted like I'd just told him my car had broken down. He's known my family since he was 12 and he didn't so much as ask what had happened.

What I really want to do is ask him if his girlfriend has a problem with me; what can I do to fix it; why won't he hang out with me anymore? But all I can see is the situation with my brother and his wife repeating itself. I don't want to lose my best friend because I didn't try and do something, but I don't want to lose him because I tried to do something. My mum tried to tell my brother that his wife was alienating him from everyone, and it just drove him further away... but if she kept quiet, it would have kept happening anyway, just it would have gone unspoken and it would have been even sadder. I don't know what to do. I can't even turn to anyone to ask them what to do, because the people I'd turn to, i.e. my family and my best friend, are the exact people I can't ask about it!!

I'm just so upset. I don't know what to do anymore. Advice?! Therapy!?!?!

[GypsyGoth]

Snog the alcoholic, avoid your brother and marry your friend.

[Jake.]

Ahh, that's awful Zee, both of them in different ways. I'm not great with advice, but by the sounds of it you should stick by your parents for now. And as for your mate, I'd talk to him about it.

[GypsyGoth]

Ok seriously, I'm not sure, I don't think there is anything you can do with your friend. Maybe it's not that you've done anything wrong, she might just be possessive of his time. It seems to be a problem in their relationship and not something you did. I hate to say it, but I don't think you can have him as a close friend while he's in a relationship with her.

And I think your situation with your brother is more difficult. It does sound like she has a drink problem, and maybe your brother doesn't mind, I mean he's still with her so he must love her a lot because it seems like he's picking her over family.

I'm not sure it's a fair thing that your folks kinda forbade you from seeing your brother, as I think having lines of communication open with him is a good thing. By the sounds of it, your brother's marriage won't last that long, she will probably turn on him. Without treatment, in a way she is a walking wounded person, and unfortunately one of the symptoms of her alcohol illness is wrecking families. She probably need help.

[Jack_]

Only you know how your best friend would react to you asking if his girlfriend had a problem with you or not, so you just need to assess how you think he'd react. You can dress the question up and make it sound like you're upset about it (I assume you are, it's not ideal), i.e. something like 'I've been wondering...does _____ have a problem with me, do you know? I really hope not cause I've no problem with her at all' or something. That of course all depends on whether he does actually know, so I guess that's another problem :/

As for your family situation...Christ, I don't know where to start. First of all by saying I'm very sorry to hear that, I actually felt sad reading it and I've not experienced it first hand from your perspective so I can't imagine what it must be like! The problem here is obviously your brother's wife. She needs help (and that doesn't even need to be in a bad way, alcoholism is a terrible condition that ruins lives and relationships, which is evident here). Can your brother not see this? Is it the alcohol that makes her so horrible? I'm assuming it is. In which case, this is the decisive factor which could change everything. It's finding a way of getting her help that is the problem here. Sort it out, and things may change and all fall back into place (well, that is of course assuming your parents forgive him/them).

I do have to say though that even if she doesn't get help, I cannot see him lasting in a relationship like that forever. I'd say there's a 10% chance of it lasting, it's just destined to fail. You can't keep whoring yourself out as someone's little bitch forever, most people would eventually say enough's enough and reach a dead end where it's time for things to change. If not or as well as that, the alcohol will surely only increase her aggression. A lot of marriages end up with recurring arguments and alcohol could only make that worse, surely? If they end up arguing a lot and there's no love left...then as most marriages in those situations end up, it's over anyway. So I don't know, I just think it's unlikely to last unless she ends up changing.

If I think of anything else I'll add it...this probably hasn't even helped but it's late, I'm tired and I'm rambling. All the best with it though, it'll sort itself out sooner or later.

[Smithy]

That's horrible greg

I kinda agree with Claudia, if she's an alcoholic it won't be long until she turns on your brother and he see's her for what she is, and you should tell your parents that too, because one day he'll end up coming back apologetic and they might react badly(?) If you get what I mean

I think with your friend you should just ask him outright, and if she does have a problem with you, you should tell him that you've known him a hell of a lot longer than he's known her, it'd be horrible for him to throwaway pretty much a lifetime friendship for a girl. Fair enough if she does has a problem but it shouldn't stop you from seeing your best friend.

[Smithy]

-is terrible with advice-

[Mrluvaluva]

There is a saying, not sure who by, but it goes as something like "It is better to regret the things you have done rather than regret the things you haven't done", or something like that.

I think you should speak to your friend about the way you feel, and just tell it like it is. Don't try and put a spin on it. Just tell him plain and simple how you are feeling, when it feels like the right time to talk to him about it. Try and avoid bringing others into the equation though as it could cause animosity. If you mention his girlfriend he could go on the defensive, as I expect you have learned in your brother's case. I've seen it happen so many times before. Just tell him that you feel you are growing apart etc. Only you know what you need to say.

With regards to your brother, I don't think there is much you can do. If he is aware how you feel, there is not much you can do about it I am afraid. Sometimes you just have to ride things out, no matter how hard it is, until the other person sees the light and decides to do something about it themselves. People can have clouded judgements as to what's going on around them sometimes. Make your point, tell him you are upset with him so hes not oblivious as to how you are all feeling, but leave it at that. He's then aware of how others are feeling, and it's up to him to do something to change that.

Unfortunately there are no set ways to deal with matters like this. Just use your judgement and intuition and do what feels right for you.

I hope you find some inspiration and help from people's comments to resolve some of your issues and things eventually work our for both you and your family.

[Amy Jade]

Im crap at giving advice, the parents/brother thing must be really hard for you, we have a similar situation with my Uncle, his wife can't handle drink and insulted our family at a birthday party and because my Mum spoke up my Uncle doesn't speak to any of us anymore. I think considering your limited relationship with your brother you did the right thing in standing by your parents, your Mum does not deserve to be verbally attacked in public at all. His wife has problems and sadly he will have to learn the hard way if he has refused advice from others.

The friend situation is difficult, your friend clearly still wants a relationship with you so I think you should speak to him and ask if his girlfriend does have a problem, just mind how you word it so he knows you are asking because you genuinely want to be a part of their lives and are not just picking at a problem.

Good luck with both, hope everything works out for the best for you and everyone important to you.

[LemonJam]

Firstly, from the way you've said it I don't think anyone in your family is technically in the wrong. Your sister in law though needs a slap and a reality check.

I will say however that cutting off communication entirely and writing your own son out of the will is a bit far. If there's no communication, then there's no possible way the problem could be fixed and things like that aren't going to help the situation. I 100% understand why your mother would be furious, I really do, but without communication there is no relationship and whether the communication is good or bad at least a mother and her son are in contact.

Personally, I would go to your brother yourself (or with your younger brother perhaps as support) and just give him an honest talk keeping what you have to say truthful, but sensitive, making sure that he knows you're saying this because you care for him and his well being. Maybe not letting everything out at once, but in baby steps. Maybe even via emails so you can craft what you want to say in a more sensitive manner

As for your friendship I would choose to talk to him about it, for sure. In my first year of uni I made a really, really good friend quicker with one person than I ever have with anyone else in my whole life and we fell out at the end of the year because I felt she was making a big mistake in her life. I chose not to talk to her following it and now I don't know where she is, how she's doing etc. So forth, I always think it's better to have talked to them. Communication is the only way to fix a relationship but just make sure you express yourself in a careful manner.

I dunno if this is in any way helpful, but it's what I'd do. As a bunch of general things, stay strong, don't lose your temper at these people you love and although the situation sucks for you, remember to empathise. It may be a slow process to fix these relationships, but if it's done right, it'll be worth it.

[Benjamin]

Unfortunately love can 'blind' you and until he realises it for himself and take that step to change something then your brother will remain stuck. As some of you know, I was in an abusive relationship. It took me ages to realise that my partner was controlling me via emotional blackmail and it was only when he hit me that I realised the situation I was in. Even then it still took me a year to leave him properly, as I felt so dependant upon him because I had let him drive my friends away, it felt like he was all I had. A situation I'm fairly certain your brother is in.

As with your friend who only has time for you when their girlfriend is away and because she seems to have a problem, it is probably because she sees you as a threat to his attention because you wers so close. Unfortunately, as blunt as this is, people change and not always for the better. You may have to face losing him and moving on, you can't remian friends with everyone, even if you have known them for a long time. Maybe keeping your distance and contact from him will make him realise.

The best thing for you to do is try and focus on yourself. I know it may seem selfish and uncaring, but letting it drag you down will not achieve anything. You need to be able to strong if they do come to you when they realise these things.

[Novo]

Yes, a Lenovo phone might do the trick

[Ammi]

..I can understand how your parents feel about this..whether they've 'handled' it right or not,...well, I guess they've handled it their way because they're very hurt that they feel he's chosen her and dismissed them..especially your mum, who she's been quite abusive o..(the taking off the will is just a way of saying 'you've hurt me', so I'll hurt you back, which is a natural reaction..) ..but the problem is, he 'chose' her when he fell in love with her..and he's probably hurting more than anyone in this..but at the same time he did tell her what your parents had said..(maybe he thought it would help her realise the problem she had..?..)..I think for him. the person he loves (or loved) is ill and he has to stand by her and help her, whatever the cost..if she had a serious disease like cancer or something...it would be thought as very harsh if he abandoned her..or if people said, wow your partner is completely abusive and horrible since she had that cancer thing..I don't mean that to sound flippant because it's not...but he probably wants to try to 'make her better' or just not leave her while this thing is consuming her...

..I think your brother is the real one 'stuck between a rock and a hard place'...and everyone is reacting in the only way they know how to...there aren't really any guilty parties here, I don't think...it's just an awful situation and heartbreaking for you all.....


...it's understandable that you want to talk to your best friend about everything..I think when people meet 'the one' then for them that person becomes everything to them, which includes being their best friend as well as their lover etc..it would be lovely and so easy and uncomplicated if all our lives moved on at the same pace, so no one felt 'shut out' or hurt about the changes in people's lives..but that just doesn't happen, of course...and maybe a 'true friend' would have time fo your problems as well as caring for his partner....but she seems to have an issue with yours and his relationship..?...I think talking to him about that may just escalate the problem because he will get defensive/protective and possibly relay the conversation to her as well...(a bit like your other situation..kind of..)so you could try to have a friendy chat with her about it...not 'barge' in with..what is your problem with me..?..type of thing, but just get to know each other...you already share a huge thing in common..your love for him...if you two could form a friendship/understanding then maybe you would get a huge part of that 'best friend' thing back with him again....

..sorry, I haven't been any help in this at all as I haven't got a huge amount of time this morning, but I'll read it all again later and have a think about it today...........

[thesheriff443]

im afraid this is what sometimes happen's with family, your mum cant live your brother's life for him, no matter how much of a bitch his wife is, that's his life and trust me!, no one want's to be told they are being taken for a mug!

and for your dilema zee, we all change and our life's can move in different direction's, his girlfriend may well see you as competion for her bf's time and attention but your friend may also find it hard to have to jugle his time between you and his girlfriend, you could have found someone that makes you happy and even tho you might say you would not neglect your friend, you would not be able to do as much with them as you did before.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Novo

Yes, a Lenovo phone might do the trick

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Ben

hey, ben let me know when your coming back to the uk so i can tip off custom's about you being a drug's mule!

[Niamh.]

Awwww Greg, I'm so sorry to hear all that

hhhmmm, the thing with your brother, I've seen things like this happen alot when people end up in bad relationships, they have to back up their partner unless they're ready to get out of the relationship because If he admits that what his wife is doing is that terrible then he has to leave, so he doesn't admit it and habits are very hard to break even if they're really bad ones.

I do think it was very wrong of your father to give you an ultimatum though, that wasn't at all fair and I hope you don't get offended by this but when I got to the part about your brother not being your fathers biological child I thought "ahh it makes abit more sense now" .

If I was in you shoes, I would say that to your dad (not about the biological bit) but that you don't think it was right for him to give you an ultimatum about seeing your brother. I wonder does your mother feel the same way as your dad? or does she just feel like she needs to back him up on it?

As for your brother, I feel about the worst for him out of anyone else in this story, he obviously knows that what he's doing isn't right which is why imo he's had to stay away from your parents. I hope one day he'll find the strength to get out of the relationship and if he was my son/brother I would just let him know that if and when he needs help that I'll be there for him.

As for your friend, it does sound like he's just, "fell into his hole" (I know that's a horrible phrase but it fits lol) Whether the g/f likes you or not should have no baring on whether or not your friend sees you, he's obviously just become selfish. In this situation I think the only thing you can do is tell him that you feel neglected by him since he started seeing this girl and that you miss spending quality time with him, then it's up to him, there's not a lot more you can do besides that.

[Kizzy]

Your brother is a grown up as are you, some parents let go and some parents need the reins snatched from their grasp.

Your friend may be being influenced by this woman you may just have grown apart who knows, as long as he knows you are still there for him.

[Tom4784]

PART 1
It sounds like a doomed marriage, I think your brother's deluding himself into believing everything is okay when it's not. A marriage is a partnership but your brother sounds more like a parent or a benefactor to her then a husband. If they ever do have a child it'll be the thing that wakes him up I think since the parental instincts would kick in and he'd almost definitely place the child's needs above hers.

I think your parents cutting him out was a bad idea though, if interfering could push him away then cutting him off completely would thrust him right into the in-law's grasp. The in-laws will have free reign to pour poison in his ears while just being there for when he needs them could be enough to break her hold over him.

I think it's only a matter of time before that marriage implodes tbh.

PART 2

Friends grow apart, I don't see a lot of my childhood friends anymore if truth be told. We'll have catch up sessions and hang out when time permits but as you grow older yout circle of friends end up changing a lot. It's just a sad fact really, people change.

[Z]

Thank you everyone for your responses, I knew I could count on you guys

My dad said some of the things you guys have said, about my brother eventually snapping out of it when he realises what state he's in... and I said to my dad, well surely someone should be there for him when he has nothing left, and my dad said no, he'll only learn if he's at rock bottom and is forced to start making amends. I can see the logic in that. If I'm there for him as soon as his wife leaves him, he'll have no reason to speak to my parents. If nobody's there for him, he'll be forced to think about his life and right the wrongs.

My mum told me to not think of him as my brother, in this situation, but just as any other 34 year old man, married for 5 years with no kids. Say they split up this year. The divorce will be lengthy and it'll take him a long time to get over it. They've been together for 13 years. How old's he going to be before he meets someone new? How old is he going to be before they start thinking about marriage and kids? His chances of being just like his friends, and having something in common with them to talk about when he's out of his bad marriage, are growing slimmer by the day. Soon, that door will close. Some of his friends have kids starting primary school soon. He's missing out on that experience. They don't hang out with other couples. They only hang out with her family.

Abusing my mum and suffocating my brother aside, I actually like my sister in law as a person. She's fun to be around and I've never seen her be horrible to him. Understandably, she was horrible to my mum because my brother told her the things my mum had said about her. That doesn't justify what she did, and I'm angry about what she did, but I get why she did it. From her view, my mother is being the mother in law from hell, nobody is good enough for her son, they've been together for 13 years and she's said these things etc... but the truth hurts. She doesn't recognise what my mum's saying as valid, and it's too easy for my brother to go along with it, rather that than deal with the real problem. Admitting she has an alcohol problem is admitting my mum was right and admitting he, and they, were wrong to react in the way they did.

But as my dad said, there will reach a day when he listens to his wife and her family say poisonous things about my mum and he'll snap. It might not be soon, but I don't doubt it'll happen eventually. My mum's not done anything horrible to my brother, he has no reason to hate her, not really. He'll get sick of hearing them call her names and think to himself, that's my mum. Don't talk about my mum like that.

I can only hope, anyway..


As for my best friend, we're hanging out on Saturday afternoon, supposedly... I'm half convinced he'll bail and I'm pretty sure he'll invite our other two close friends along too. I've spoken to them about how my best friend and I have been drifting apart, but I don't really want to have the conversation with other people there because I think that gives him an excuse to hide away from talking about it properly. I know that people drift apart and times change; but we've been inseparable for such a long time, we lived together for two years, I really didn't think this would ever happen to our friendship. It really sucks.

[Tom4784]

The main problem with cutting someone off to help them is that it's incredibly risky, it can be effective but then he could end up holding onto the inlaws even tighter if he doesn't feel as though he has anyone else.

If you need any advice on any actions to take then don't hesitate to ask me, I'm pretty much the Sun Tzu of family politics. I was pretty much raised in a family at constant war with it's relatives. I know all the tricks and all the strategies.

[Niamh.]

Obviously it's your family Zee and you know them better than anyone but I think your dad is very wrong in this. Cutting your brother out of your lives and your parents will, will just push your brother farther away imo

[Z]

Ah, forgot to address that point Niamh - it was my mum's decision, not my dad's, my dad's always been very respectful of my mum's relationship with my brother and he's not said a word to my brother in all of this; so as far as my brother's aware, he could try and talk to my dad, and my dad would talk to him, but only if my brother comes to him.

They're all so stubborn!!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Zee

Ah, forgot to address that point Niamh - it was my mum's decision, not my dad's, my dad's always been very respectful of my mum's relationship with my brother and he's not said a word to my brother in all of this; so as far as my brother's aware, he could try and talk to my dad, and my dad would talk to him, but only if my brother comes to him.

They're all so stubborn!!

Well that's fair enough then. I do feel for your brother though, it must be very hard living with an alcoholic and if he wants to stay there then he has to put her before everyone else. I don't think people understand just how hard this stuff can be unless they've been in a bad relationship themselves.

Oh and I still believe that you getting ultimatum was very wrong

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Zee

Thank you everyone for your responses, I knew I could count on you guys

My dad said some of the things you guys have said, about my brother eventually snapping out of it when he realises what state he's in... and I said to my dad, well surely someone should be there for him when he has nothing left, and my dad said no, he'll only learn if he's at rock bottom and is forced to start making amends. I can see the logic in that. If I'm there for him as soon as his wife leaves him, he'll have no reason to speak to my parents. If nobody's there for him, he'll be forced to think about his life and right the wrongs.

My mum told me to not think of him as my brother, in this situation, but just as any other 34 year old man, married for 5 years with no kids. Say they split up this year. The divorce will be lengthy and it'll take him a long time to get over it. They've been together for 13 years. How old's he going to be before he meets someone new? How old is he going to be before they start thinking about marriage and kids? His chances of being just like his friends, and having something in common with them to talk about when he's out of his bad marriage, are growing slimmer by the day. Soon, that door will close. Some of his friends have kids starting primary school soon. He's missing out on that experience. They don't hang out with other couples. They only hang out with her family.
Abusing my mum and suffocating my brother aside, I actually like my sister in law as a person. She's fun to be around and I've never seen her be horrible to him. Understandably, she was horrible to my mum because my brother told her the things my mum had said about her. That doesn't justify what she did, and I'm angry about what she did, but I get why she did it. From her view, my mother is being the mother in law from hell, nobody is good enough for her son, they've been together for 13 years and she's said these things etc... but the truth hurts. She doesn't recognise what my mum's saying as valid, and it's too easy for my brother to go along with it, rather that than deal with the real problem. Admitting she has an alcohol problem is admitting my mum was right and admitting he, and they, were wrong to react in the way they did.

But as my dad said, there will reach a day when he listens to his wife and her family say poisonous things about my mum and he'll snap. It might not be soon, but I don't doubt it'll happen eventually. My mum's not done anything horrible to my brother, he has no reason to hate her, not really. He'll get sick of hearing them call her names and think to himself, that's my mum. Don't talk about my mum like that.

I can only hope, anyway..


As for my best friend, we're hanging out on Saturday afternoon, supposedly... I'm half convinced he'll bail and I'm pretty sure he'll invite our other two close friends along too. I've spoken to them about how my best friend and I have been drifting apart, but I don't really want to have the conversation with other people there because I think that gives him an excuse to hide away from talking about it properly. I know that people drift apart and times change; but we've been inseparable for such a long time, we lived together for two years, I really didn't think this would ever happen to our friendship. It really sucks.

..the thing is that those are all 'what ifs' Zee..if they divorce he may or may not take a long time to get over it...he may meet someone straight away and get married again very quickly...he may meet someone who has children already and feel that's enough...or maybe he won't want to have children at all...and if he does then there'll always be other children at primary school with his..those are all bridges that haven't been crossed and no one knows what those bridges are until they get to them...so these are things reall not to think about yet....and I think your dad's right..one day he will miss your mum but he has to reach that by himself...it's so hard for the rest of the family but in a way I can see that he feels he has to put his partner first...and despite everything he probably still loves her and feels she needs him most...