[GiRTh]

When BB announced he had been removed. If she'd explained that she had a warning too then surely him being moved would have made sense. Why didnt she tell them?

[Niamh.]

I guess she was in shock, she looked it. Maybe she didn't want to go into it in front of the whole group like that

[HBB1508]

She looked embarrassed to me as though she knew she had pushed him too far.

[fingers]

She looked as guilty as hell which is why she blurted out "What are you all looking at me for?"

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I guess she was in shock, she looked it. Maybe she didn't want to go into it in front of the whole group like that

There was a thread on this last night.

I think it was the perfect time to tell them and am a bit shocked that she said absolutely nothing. Things were fresh in her mind she should have at least mentioned something. I thought her behaviour was odd the way she just sat there. She's a smart girl and alarm bells must have rung that his removal may have been linked to the incident the previous night. I think the incident is gonna be spun to death out here and by the time she comes out it'll be ok to question her recollection of the night and remember they had both been drinking for most of the evening so I'm expecting a lot of 'he said she said' when they both come out.

I am not condoning Daleys behaviour in any way shape or form; he became aggressive and abusive but.I've watched the incident a number of times and I still cant tell at what point Hazel became scared. I think she definitely does get scared but still cant pin point at what point. It shows what a nightmare these kind of cases are cuz even with video footage there is still an interpretation. I think he asks her to up the ante at least twice in the vid and she responds' positively. The 'go for it' and 'I like aggressive men' comments. Some may say she was being sarcastic etc but the vid clearly show her responding positively not once but twice. There may even be a legal case.

I believe that the LF footage shows that the argument started long before he put his hands on her. This is very complicated IMO and I'm not surprised c5 pulled the vid that showed the build up. I think this may continue when the two of them come out of the house.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

There was a thread on this last night.

I think it was the perfect time to tell them and am a bit shocked that she said absolutely nothing. Things were fresh in her mind she should have at least mentioned something. I thought her behaviour was odd the way she just sat there. She's a smart girl and alarm bells must have rung that his removal may have been linked to the incident the previous night. I think the incident is gonna be spun to death out here and by the time she comes out it'll be ok to question her recollection of the night and remember they had both been drinking for most of the evening so I'm expecting a lot of 'he said she said' when they both come out.

I am not condoning Daleys behaviour in any way shape or form; he became aggressive and abusive but.I've watched the incident a number of times and I still cant tell at what point Hazel became scared. I think she definitely does get scared but still cant pin point at what point. It shows what a nightmare these kind of cases are cuz even with video footage there is still an interpretation. I think he asks her to up the ante at least twice in the vid and she responds' positively. The 'go for it' and 'I like aggressive men' comments. Some may say she was being sarcastic etc but the vid clearly show her responding positively not once but twice. There may even be a legal case.

I believe that the LF footage shows that the argument started long before he put his hands on her. This is very complicated IMO and I'm not surprised c5 pulled the vid that showed the build up. I think this may continue when the two of them come out of the house.

I think it was right at the end, it seemed to click that he wasn't just playing the same as she was round about the point where he said he would nut her. She was quite drunk, so probably didn't click on as quickly as she would have usually.

I think she would have realised a lot earlier if she had known how he was behaving before she even came to bed.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by HBB1508

She looked embarrassed to me as though she knew she had pushed him too far.

Really? She pushed him to it did she?

[HBB1508]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Really? She pushed him to it did she?

IMO it was 50/50 she was goading him on and he responded I really don't think she was in any danger - it's a tv studio and a tv show at the end of the day and it's all been recorded.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by HBB1508

IMO it was 50/50 she was goading him on and he responded I really don't think she was in any danger - it's a tv studio and a tv show at the end of the day and it's all been recorded.

wow.

[Patricia4]

Originally Posted by fingers

She looked as guilty as hell which is why she blurted out "What are you all looking at me for?"

fingers I thought the same.

[bez87]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

There was a thread on this last night.

I think it was the perfect time to tell them and am a bit shocked that she said absolutely nothing. Things were fresh in her mind she should have at least mentioned something. I thought her behaviour was odd the way she just sat there. She's a smart girl and alarm bells must have rung that his removal may have been linked to the incident the previous night. I think the incident is gonna be spun to death out here and by the time she comes out it'll be ok to question her recollection of the night and remember they had both been drinking for most of the evening so I'm expecting a lot of 'he said she said' when they both come out.

I am not condoning Daleys behaviour in any way shape or form; he became aggressive and abusive but.I've watched the incident a number of times and I still cant tell at what point Hazel became scared. I think she definitely does get scared but still cant pin point at what point. It shows what a nightmare these kind of cases are cuz even with video footage there is still an interpretation. I think he asks her to up the ante at least twice in the vid and she responds' positively. The 'go for it' and 'I like aggressive men' comments. Some may say she was being sarcastic etc but the vid clearly show her responding positively not once but twice. There may even be a legal case.

I believe that the LF footage shows that the argument started long before he put his hands on her. This is very complicated IMO and I'm not surprised c5 pulled the vid that showed the build up. I think this may continue when the two of them come out of the house.

The way i have viewed it all, is Hazel believed it was a Sexual moment and he was being the big man, and thats how he likes it, but i believe on Daleys side from the moment she nicked the cover, it was complete disrespect to him and he was not having non of it. Why i believe this is the case is in a few incidences.

Take for example he tells her, he will finish her, she does reply to this in a playful manner, but i honestly believe Daley couldn't understand it, as he asked what she ment by it, at this point i thought hold on a minute, Did Daley mean something else to what Hazel was meaning. then he kept telling her to respect him, and he smacked her on the arse.

At that moment i believe that her attitude changed and she became scared, This is the turning point from playful to crazy. Her response was to playfully pull his pants down, to defuse the situation or remind him that she is being fun, or like someone else said to try gain a bit of control, very stupid mistake, then it went to the point she became very quiet turns to the side so he can get the cover which he does, and doesn't carry on this agressiveness from a distance, he goes in without any sexual presence on show, and tells her she should respect his elders or else he will nut her, and at which point BB stepped in and she jumps up and goes over to the furthest chair, this for me signifies how scared she was and her eyes tell the story. when he says has he done anything wrong and she says no, i believe she said this to keep him happy.

She didn't m,anipulate any situation to get him kicked out, she told them how she felt and i honestly thought she couldn't of said it better myself. she didn't say she was scared of him, she was scared of the situation because she couldn't tell if he was playing or not. how is that manipulating the situation do people want people to lie, yes it might be a game but what happened was real

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I think it was right at the end, it seemed to click that he wasn't just playing the same as she was round about the point where he said he would nut her. She was quite drunk, so probably didn't click on as quickly as she would have usually.

I think she would have realised a lot earlier if she had known how he was behaving before she even came to bed.

You say she didn't realise he was serous. I say you're speculating and the vid doesn't show one way or another.

I think its a very murky episode thats open to interpretation. Some would say the 'I like aggressive men' and 'Go for it' comments from Hazel were green lights for him to continue the role play. Some would say she was nervously going along with it but was clearly afraid.

I think its not done and I'm predicting a lot of 'he said she said' on twitter and in the press when they both come out.

[bez87]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

You say she didn't realise he was serous. I say you're speculating and the vid doesn't show one way or another.

I think its a very murky episode thats open to interpretation. Some would say the 'I like aggressive men' and 'Go for it' comments from Hazel were green lights for him to continue the role play. Some would say she was nervously going along with it but was clearly afraid.

I think its not done and I'm predicting a lot of 'he said she said' on twitter and in the press when they both come out.

I'm seeing as those parts were her believing he was being aggressive for sexual preferences, you know something changed near the end, when she went quiet and moved away from the cover, she realised it was something more then, but i think the changing point was when daley smacked her arse, i think something changed then, in her facial expressions and communication, it changed.

[rionablue]

Originally Posted by bez87

The way i have viewed it all, is Hazel believed it was a Sexual moment and he was being the big man, and thats how he likes it, but i believe on Daleys side from the moment she nicked the cover, it was complete disrespect to him and he was not having non of it. Why i believe this is the case is in a few incidences.

Take for example he tells her, he will finish her, she does reply to this in a playful manner, but i honestly believe Daley couldn't understand it, as he asked what she ment by it, at this point i thought hold on a minute, Did Daley mean something else to what Hazel was meaning. then he kept telling her to respect him, and he smacked her on the arse.

At that moment i believe that her attitude changed and she became scared, This is the turning point from playful to crazy. Her response was to playfully pull his pants down, to defuse the situation or remind him that she is being fun, or like someone else said to try gain a bit of control, very stupid mistake, then it went to the point she became very quiet turns to the side so he can get the cover which he does, and doesn't carry on this agressiveness from a distance, he goes in without any sexual presence on show, and tells her she should respect his elders or else he will nut her, and at which point BB stepped in and she jumps up and goes over to the furthest chair, this for me signifies how scared she was and her eyes tell the story. when he says has he done anything wrong and she says no, i believe she said this to keep him happy.

She didn't m,anipulate any situation to get him kicked out, she told them how she felt and i honestly thought she couldn't of said it better myself. she didn't say she was scared of him, she was scared of the situation because she couldn't tell if he was playing or not. how is that manipulating the situation do people want people to lie, yes it might be a game but what happened was real

Great post Bez. Keeping it real

[courses]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I think its a very murky episode thats open to interpretation. Some would say the 'I like aggressive men' and 'Go for it' comments from Hazel were green lights for him to continue the role play. Some would say she was nervously going along with it but was clearly afraid.

I've seen this posted many times in different threads - Hazel did not say "I like aggressive men", she said "I'm not scared of aggressive men." So really this indicates she felt under threat at that point.

[CaudleHalbard]

Originally Posted by courses

I've seen this posted many times in different threads - Hazel did not say "I like aggressive men", she said "I'm not scared of aggressive men." So really this indicates she felt under threat at that point.

She is turned on by a degree of aggression.

Some people are. Shock, horror!

We can argue forever about whether it went too far.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by courses

I've seen this posted many times in different threads - Hazel did not say "I like aggressive men", she said "I'm not scared of aggressive men." So really this indicates she felt under threat at that point.

Yeah, that's what I thought too, I never heard her say I like aggressive men

[courses]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

She is turned on by a degree of aggression.

Some people are. Shock, horror!

We can argue forever about whether it went too far.

Maybe she was turned on but she didn't say so verbally. I've seen a few posts using false evidence of her supposedly saying that in order to blame her for Daley's actions. Even if she had said it, it's still no excuse for Daley's actions.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by courses

I've seen this posted many times in different threads - Hazel did not say "I like aggressive men", she said "I'm not scared of aggressive men." So really this indicates she felt under threat at that point.

I think you're arguing semantics and that's my point, its open to interpretation and we can all agree she definitely wasnt saying no at that point. Also, as I recall she was smiling while saying she wasn't scared of aggressive men so I don't see how you can tell she was definitely scared. We can sit here and speculate for the rest of the year what this expression meant or if we could see genuine fear in her eyes but the fact is at no point did she tell him to stop .

I'm not condoning in his behaviour but please look at Hazels role in this based on the HL footage. I know the LF tells us more but I'm looking at it from a casual viewers POV and thus I can see why some casual viewers are not too sympathetic to Hazel.

[courses]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I think you're arguing semantics and that's my point, its open to interpretation and we can all agree she definitely wasnt saying no at that point. Also, as I recall she was smiling while saying she wasn't scared of aggressive men so I don't see how you can tell she was definitely scared. We can sit here and speculate for the rest of the year what this expression meant or if we could see genuine fear in her eyes but the fact is at no point did she tell him to stop .

I'm not condoning in his behaviour but please look at Hazels role in this based on the HL footage. I know the LF tells us more but I'm looking at it from a casual viewers POV and thus I can see why some casual viewers are not too sympathetic to Hazel.

I'm not arguing semantics, she quite clearly said "I'm not scared of aggressive men" not "I like aggressive men." Two different meanings there.

I've only seen the HL footage so I guess I could be classed as a casual viewer. Personally I'm not a fan of Hazel but she was in no way to blame for this and her role/behaviour shouldn't come into it.

[fingers]

BTW, will we see her explanation to housemates why she's back in the main House but Daley isn't?

[LouCipher]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

There was a thread on this last night.

I believe that the LF footage shows that the argument started long before he put his hands on her. This is very complicated IMO and I'm not surprised c5 pulled the vid that showed the build up. I think this may continue when the two of them come out of the house.

I watched the video and typed the dialogue out then posted the transcript of the entire lead up to the fight in the "transcript" thread last night.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by courses

I'm not arguing semantics, she quite clearly said "I'm not scared of aggressive men" not "I like aggressive men." Two different meanings there.

I've only seen the HL footage so I guess I could be classed as a casual viewer. Personally I'm not a fan of Hazel but she was in no way to blame for this and her role/behaviour shouldn't come into it.

You are arguing semantics cuz you have no idea what she meant.

I've never said she to blame I'm just trying to interpret the events and work out at what point she was cared. As for her behaviour, I think since the incident she has behaved strangely saying 'why you looking at me' She must have worked out Daley's exclusion was linked to the incident so why was she acting like she had no idea?

[fingers]

Apparently she said to Dan, and we may get to see it tonight

"I have agreed that I don't want to have to discuss it with the rest of the housemates, I just feel a bit guilty if I was involved, is Daley okay?"

Note the "if I was involved" bit, she's already distancing herself from the incident.

[courses]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

You are arguing semantics cuz you have no idea what she meant.

I've never said she to blame I'm just trying to interpret the events and work out at what point she was cared. As for her behaviour, I think since the incident she has behaved strangely saying 'why you looking at me' She must have worked out Daley's exclusion was linked to the incident so why was she acting like she had no idea?

"I like aggressive men" = I like how you are acting right now.
"I'm not scared of aggressive men" = I am not scared of how you are acting right now.

Semantics? Only if you can somehow see the 2nd sentence as a green light like the first one.

I too am trying to work out when she became scared, as I said before I think an indicator was when she said this.