[the truth]

sorry Im not up to speed on this tale, all ive seen is a tweet she posted of 3 st georges flags and a white van tweeted? shes quit parliament because of that??? so whats she done wrong?

[Kizzy]

linky?

[the truth]

she resigned from the labour party today
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-s-flags.html

[Marsh.]

what did emily thornburry do wrong?

She was born a woman.

/thread

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by the truth

sorry Im not up to speed on this tale, all ive seen is a tweet she posted of 3 st georges flags and a white van tweeted? shes quit parliament because of that??? so whats she done wrong?

She upset Ed..by moving the attention away from the probable Tory loss in the by election.

He has never been so angry..blah blah blah or words of similar ilk.

I think she was just trying to show that Rochester is UKIP keen.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by smudgie

She upset Ed..by moving the attention away from the probable Tory loss in the by election.

He has never been so angry..blah blah blah or words of similar ilk.

I think she was just trying to show that Rochester is UKIP keen.

bizarre? ive never known anyone resign for such a non reason

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by the truth

bizarre? ive never known anyone resign for such a non reason

I know, a couple of phone calls with Ed then she resiigns.

[the truth]

it really does underline the utter shallow vacuousness of milibland and the vast majority of the media driven spin driven image obsessed twats we have running , sorry ruining this country..........daily mail headlines dictate policy more than any moral beliefs

[Kizzy]

It's inciting racial tension, and a bit of a dumbass thing to do even if you're not in the shadow cabinet.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's inciting racial tension, and a bit of a dumbass thing to do even if you're not in the shadow cabinet.

howin is it inciting racial tension?

[Kizzy]

How is it not?... think about it.

[joeysteele]

She seemed to think there appeared something odd and maybe worng as to flying English flags at a house.

There was a bad response to the fact she tweeted that pic of the house and naturally Ed Miliband will be annoyed.
What on earth is in any way odd about a house with England flags draped from its windows.
So she has resigned,it appears from the Shadow Cabinet.

The attack Miliband brigade from the press are clearly out already however, had he said nothing, it would have been said he was a weak leader, when people had been offended by her tweet.
Now he gets attacked for showing passion and anger at someone he had in his front bench team, who should have known better than to present flags draped from a house as odd in any way.

A storm in a teacup maybe,once it all dies down as to the attention given to it, however what a quick action and decision made as to her resigning.
No matter how minor an incident it really was, Ed Miliband has every right to be furious,that attention has been pulled negatively to Labour because of her tweet, rather than all the focus being on the Conservatives woes in Rochester.
Any leader would be mad at a Minister for bringing that about.

A far contrast to Cameron's ministers hanging on for grim death, with him swearing undying support for them, only for them to end up going much later.

[rubymoo]

I took it as, she appeared to tweet the picture as a jibe at the home owner, white van man, living in a terraced house, with St George flags hanging out of the windows, it's almost looking down on people and shows a huge amount of snobbery, that is not how politics should be, Labour has been long known as the working mans party and when you get a Labour mp tweeting a picture of what looks like a working household, it then undermines their connection with a huge section of the British public, it really does show the huge loss of connection of politicians with their general public.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by the truth

it really does underline the utter shallow vacuousness of milibland and the vast majority of the media driven spin driven image obsessed twats we have running , sorry ruining this country..........daily mail headlines dictate policy more than any moral beliefs

Truly the truth as I see it too.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

I took it as, she appeared to tweet the picture as a jibe at the home owner, white van man, living in a terraced house, with St George flags hanging out of the windows, it's almost looking down on people and shows a huge amount of snobbery, that is not how politics should be, Labour has been long known as the working mans party and when you get a Labour mp tweeting a picture of what looks like a working household, it then undermines their connection with a huge section of the British public, it really does show the huge loss of connection of politicians with their general public.

I utterly, totally disagree. Anyone who maintains that St George flags hanging from any house windows all year round are not now indicative of the racial or Nationalistic motives of the occupants of such households,are in a sociopolitical state of denial. I state 'all year round' - as distinct from specific occasions; St George's day, England FIFA World Cup matches etc.

The Swastika is an innocuous symbol used by many religions dating back over 10,000 years, but now - since being commandeered by Hitler and the Nazis - it has only sinister connotations, and it is no different with the Cross of St George which has been similarly appropriated by Far-Right Extremist organisations and individual racists and Nationalists.

Just as with the true reason for Christmas and Bonfire Night, the average school child in this country is probably - sadly - ignorant of the tradition of St George, and is - again sadly - more likely to associate the Cross of St George with skinheads and racist organisations.

I certainly believe that immigrants of all Nationalities perceive the flag of St George with a degree of dread and apprehension because of the above connotations.

I believe that the real reasons which motivated Thornberry to take and tweet the '3 flag picture', was that completely by chance, in that one shot is encapsulated the raw truth behind the changing political climate in this country - that the traditional grass roots Labour and Tory supporters feel betrayed by the main parties persistent failure to address the very real problem of our unfettered and insane immigration policies. Hence, the rise of UKIP.

I think that, the terrace house (council owned or otherwise) is representative of the long perceived abode of traditional Labour voters, and that the 'white van' is indicative that the occupant of the terrace house is not only a 'worker' but also to some degree, 'entrepreneurial' - probably self employed - therefore unlikely to be far left in his politics.

I find it difficult to accept the occupant, Mr Ware's, statement that "the flags had been up since the world cup" - do people leave exterior Christmas decorations festooned over their houses all year long once Christmas has passed? Do people leave 'Vote XXX' posters in their windows and still pasted to their exterior house walls once the particular 'By Election' or 'General Election' is over?

I think that the flags were draped there for the very reason Thornberry thought, but whether they were or not, the shot was highly relevant in the context in which she used it.

I know that after being admonished by her boss, Thornberry has changed her stance and tried to limit the damage her tweet has done, but Miliband is more concerned with winning the General Election at all costs to let standing up for one of his Front Bencher's who was only telling the truth, get in the way of that.

I, for one, do not believe 'snobbery' or 'contempt for working class people' (a misnomer if ever there was one - we are all working class no matter what job or salary level) were in her mind at all when she came across this subject, took a photo of it and tweeted it. If 'a picture paints a thousand words', then this one is a 'tome' on the 'status quo' of politics at grass roots level and Miliband knows this. If he doesn't then he should 'read it'.

Just for the record, I am not a Labour voter.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I utterly, totally disagree. Anyone who maintains that St George flags hanging from any house windows all year round are not now indicative of the racial or Nationalistic motives of the occupants of such households,are in a sociopolitical state of denial. I state 'all year round' - as distinct from specific occasions; St George's day, England FIFA World Cup matches etc.

The Swastika is an innocuous symbol used by many religions dating back over 10,000 years, but now - since being commandeered by Hitler and the Nazis - it has only sinister connotations, and it is no different with the Cross of St George which has been similarly appropriated by Far-Right Extremist organisations and individual racists and Nationalists.

Just as with the true reason for Christmas and Bonfire Night, the average school child in this country is probably - sadly - ignorant of the tradition of St George, and is - again sadly - more likely to associate the Cross of St George with skinheads and racist organisations.

I certainly believe that immigrants of all Nationalities perceive the flag of St George with a degree of dread and apprehension because of the above connotations.

I believe that the real reasons which motivated Thornberry to take and tweet the '3 flag picture', was that completely by chance, in that one shot is encapsulated the raw truth behind the changing political climate in this country - that the traditional grass roots Labour and Tory supporters feel betrayed by the main parties persistent failure to address the very real problem of our unfettered and insane immigration policies. Hence, the rise of UKIP.

I think that, the terrace house (council owned or otherwise) is representative of the long perceived abode of traditional Labour voters, and that the 'white van' is indicative that the occupant of the terrace house is not only a 'worker' but also to some degree, 'entrepreneurial' - probably self employed - therefore unlikely to be far left in his politics.

I find it difficult to accept the occupant, Mr Ware's, statement that "the flags had been up since the world cup" - do people leave exterior Christmas decorations festooned over their houses all year long once Christmas has passed? Do people leave 'Vote XXX' posters in their windows and still pasted to their exterior house walls once the particular 'By Election' or 'General Election' is over?

I think that the flags were draped there for the very reason Thornberry thought, but whether they were or not, the shot was highly relevant in the context in which she used it.

I know that after being admonished by her boss, Thornberry has changed her stance and tried to limit the damage her tweet has done, but Miliband is more concerned with winning the General Election at all costs to let standing up for one of his Front Bencher's who was only telling the truth, get in the way of that.

I, for one, do not believe 'snobbery' or 'contempt for working class people' (a misnomer if ever there was one - we are all working class no matter what job or salary level) were in her mind at all when she came across this subject, took a photo of it and tweeted it. If 'a picture paints a thousand words', then this one is a 'tome' on the 'status quo' of politics at grass roots level and Miliband knows this. If he doesn't then he should 'read it'.

Just for the record, I am not a Labour voter.

Whoa that's a long post kirk, i'm not sure i know what you're going on about, i'm only giving my opinion on how i've perceived what's been said on the news, i was just giving my idea to the OP about why i think she quit, that's why i started the paragraph of my post as " i took it as...."

I actually feel like you are ranting at me

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

Whoa that's a long post kirk, i'm not sure i know what you're going on about, i'm only giving my opinion on how i've perceived what's been said on the news, i was just giving my idea to the OP about why i think she quit, that's why i started the paragraph of my post as " i took it as...."

I actually feel like you are ranting at me

Not all Ruby - you know how I feel about you. I used the points in your post because they reflect what a lot of others views are. I'm really sorry if you think I was 'ranting' at you, you ought to know better, but I apologise anyway if I made you feel this was personal.

I think with all occurrences there is a 'sub text' and I really believe that this MP saw in this shot everything which epitomises the current state of affairs in UK politics. She was saying: "left or right' - here is the reality of what you main parties are up against with the grass roots voters".

I think she 'lost her bottle' after being told off by Milliband and in the face of the (unexpected) public backlash, and never tried to explain the truth of why she found the shot so interesting.

Anyway Rubymoo I assure you that I wasn't having a go at you, just countering the points you had summarised which echoed those of others I did not agree with.

[rubymoo]

Ok.....

[Kizzy]

I took it to mean that that's how all houses should be in Rochester, national pride is fantastic all for it no question but this looks positively fanatical.
Tweeting peoples private dwellings and vehicle too?..bit odd.

[user104658]

I do find it odd that the English flag has for all intents and purposes been usurped as a symbol of intolerance / aggressive white supremely nationalism. It's quite sad. You would never get a bad reaction to the Scottish or Welsh flags being flown in people's gardens, and in the USA the stars and stripes is often flown, to hoots and hollers of pride.

As KirkL says though, symbols and images unfortunately can be hijacked in the public subconscious. Who doesn't flinch slightly at the sight of a spray painted swastika on a wall? The symbol itself was once positive but now...

Weirdly, the English flags fall from grace is really all down to more modern racism / hooliganism than anything historical. It's the English flag specifically - no one takes issue with the Union Flag (even up here in Scotland after it being used as a banner for hatred in Glasgow...) which was the symbol of the British empire, which you might expect to have negative connotations for some...