[GiRTh]

Article on benefits in this country.

LINK

Its quite a long article so I don't expect all to read it but if you do then you will see that 90% of what the government tell us and the Daily Mail publishes is bullsh*t.

Interesting facts for those who CBA to read.

Only 130 families with 10 or more children are claiming benefits in this country.

A high majority of benefits go to working families and pensioners.

Cutting benefits to unemployed does not mean they get jobs.

[Kizzy]

Thanks for this will have a good looksy tomorrow

[joeysteele]

It was a really interesting read GiRTh, it was good to see some realistic balancing done overall with the benefits facts and figures.

[Kizzy]

Would make interesting reading for those who only usually quote the right wing reactionary rags.

[lostalex]

Even if it was just 1 benefits cheat, it would still be an outrage. The fact is there are people that are STEALING from the tax payers. That is the plain truth. people should be just as upset about benefits cheats as they were about the MP expenses scandal. It's the same thing, stealing from the tax payers.

People have every right to be outraged when they are being stolen from. whether it's 1 person, or 1 million people, it's still stealing, and it's the principle that matters.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Even if it was just 1 benefits cheat, it would still be an outrage. The fact is there are people that are STEALING from the tax payers. That is the plain truth. people should be just as upset about benefits cheats as they were about the MP expenses scandal. It's the same thing, stealing from the tax payers.

People have every right to be outraged when they are being stolen from. whether it's 1 person, or 1 million people, it's still stealing, and it's the principle that matters.

This report shows they are not being stolen from by the people the government and daily Mail say.

Which is a bigger outrage - That people work the system to their advantage or that official news papers and Government sources deliberately lie to the public in order to push their agenda and politicise certain events?

[Vanessa]

Anyone can find himself out of a job. It happened to me and i had to claim benefits. I've never felt more worthless. I've worked all my life and i hated being out of work.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Anyone can find himself out of a job. It happened to me and i had to claim benefits. I've never felt more worthless. I've worked all my life and i hated being out of work.

Yeah, I've been there, too, only to be told that I'm not entitled to benefits since I have savings .....

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Omah

Yeah, I've been there, too, only to be told that I'm not entitled to benefits since I have savings .....

You must have had a fair amount of savings to not be entitled to anything, I think its something like 16k before you cant get anything

And I always thought you could claim contributions based JSA if you had savings..

Its wrong though. Just because you have been sensible shouldnt mean you arent entitled to help if you lose your job. I have this problem with the care home my gran is in..if she hadnt saved all her life she would get care for free..but just because her and my grandad saved, she has to pay Ł500 per week. Wrong on so many levels.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Even if it was just 1 benefits cheat, it would still be an outrage. The fact is there are people that are STEALING from the tax payers. That is the plain truth. people should be just as upset about benefits cheats as they were about the MP expenses scandal. It's the same thing, stealing from the tax payers.

People have every right to be outraged when they are being stolen from. whether it's 1 person, or 1 million people, it's still stealing, and it's the principle that matters.

In every area of life though, there are frauds and cheats. That will NEVER change. There will never be a system created that means no-one at all can be fraudulent. Its just impossible.

These figures show that fraud is extremely low..thats good enough for me to be honest. Yeah, a few people are claiming stuff they arent entitled to. I'm more concerned about large companies avoiding their tax, and MPs claiming for second homes then selling them on, and banks taking the piss, to be honest. So many people get so worked up over benefit fraud, when its actually a really small amount lost compared to the rest of the corrupt UK.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Article on benefits in this country.

LINK

Its quite a long article so I don't expect all to read it but if you do then you will see that 90% of what the government tell us is bullsh*t.

90% ..... or more .....

[Livia]

Who is the Joseph Rowntree Foundation? What information did their researchers access when they published the report that is being claimed to be definitive? How come if something's published in The Guardian, people who tend toward the Left hold it up as fact, while ridiculing the press of the Right?

I'd need to know a bit more about the report and the foundation that put it together before I started claiming it was fact.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Livia

Who is the Joseph Rowntree Foundation? What information did their researchers access when they published the report that is being claimed to be definitive? How come if something's published in The Guardian, people who tend toward the Left hold it up as fact, while ridiculing the press of the Right?

I'd need to know a bit more about the report and the foundation that put it together before I started claiming it was fact.

http://www.josephrowntree.org.uk/

[Livia]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

http://www.josephrowntree.org.uk/

Yes. I know... I Googled them too. However, I still don't know if their statistics are any more accurate than the government's own. It always seems to me that people are willing to grasp statistics if it fits in with their own ideas.

My local town is an unremarkable little market town with a population of around 7,000. That's 7,000 people from a total of, say, 62 million in the country. I know of four women with no partner in their lives as far as anyone knows, who do not work and who have more than 10 kids. I know this is a fact because they have all used the MP's services to take up cases against various agencies. And yet the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and by extension, the Guardian, is asking me to believe that there are only another 126 families in that position in the remaining 61,999,874 people in the country?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yes. I know... I Googled them too. However, I still don't know if their statistics are any more accurate than the government's own. It always seems to me that people are willing to grasp statistics if it fits in with their own ideas.

My local town is an unremarkable little market town with a population of around 7,000. That's 7,000 people from a total of, say, 62 million in the country. I know of four women with no partner in their lives as far as anyone knows, who do not work and who have more than 10 kids. I know this is a fact because they have all used the MP's services to take up cases against various agencies. And yet the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and by extension, the Guardian, is asking me to believe that there are only another 126 families in that position in the remaining 61,999,874 people in the country?

From my googling I didn't find any political affiliation so I'm not sure why you feel the stats cannot be trusted. They seem just as trustworthy as official stats produced by the government.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

From my googling I didn't find any political affiliation so I'm not sure why you feel the stats cannot be trusted. They seem just as trustworthy as official stats produced by the government.

Just because they have no published political affiliations doesn't mean they don't have an agenda. Simply by the nature of who they are and what they do they're going to massage any statistics to prove their own points. I don't think the government's official stats can be trusted either, of course. What I'm saying is that the truth probably lays somewhere in the middle of the two.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yes. I know... I Googled them too. However, I still don't know if their statistics are any more accurate than the government's own. It always seems to me that people are willing to grasp statistics if it fits in with their own ideas.

My local town is an unremarkable little market town with a population of around 7,000. That's 7,000 people from a total of, say, 62 million in the country. I know of four women with no partner in their lives as far as anyone knows, who do not work and who have more than 10 kids. I know this is a fact because they have all used the MP's services to take up cases against various agencies. And yet the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and by extension, the Guardian, is asking me to believe that there are only another 126 families in that position in the remaining 61,999,874 people in the country?

Even the mail isnt far off that when they report...they reckon 'nearly 200' households are claiming for 10 or more kids. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...it-broods.html

I really think where you live must be the exception...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Even the mail isnt far off that when they report...they reckon 'nearly 200' households are claiming for 10 or more kids. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...it-broods.html

I really think where you live must be the exception...

I doubt it's anything to do with where I live. This place is prosperous compared to where I come from. How many families have 9 kids? 8 kids? Anyhoo... we'll have to agree to differ. I just don't trust statistics 98% of people is nearly all of them.

[Kizzy]

I am for once speechless
When addressing the family would say the differing media opinion is due to a mix of politics and sociological perspectives.
Here is some info on what shapes family life,
http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publicat...4/04-02/11.htm

And here is some history about Joseph Rowntree a philanthropist who helped to change the social landscape in the UK.
http://www.jrrt.org.uk/sites/jrrt.or...phrowntree.pdf

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I am for once speechless
When addressing the family would say the differing media opinion is due to a mix of politics and sociological perspectives.
Here is some info on what shapes family life,
http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publicat...4/04-02/11.htm

And here is some history about Joseph Rowntree a philanthropist who helped to change the social landscape in the UK.
http://www.jrrt.org.uk/sites/jrrt.or...phrowntree.pdf

That's a lot of words for someone who's supposed to be speechless.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's a lot of words for someone who's supposed to be speechless.

I amended my post when I had rescued my jaw from the floor liv.
What is the governments position on this issue then, do their statistics differ wildly from the Rowntree foundations?
The right wing media have never been found to be economical with the truth to influence the electorate have they?

[Kizzy]

Trusting statistics compiled by sociologists and not political groups might be a start in getting to the truth.

[Niamh.]

I've deleted some off topic/arguing posts in here, can we get back on topic now please?

I'm one of 6. My parents moved to the country though, so I doubt there was much else to do.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I'm one of 6. My parents moved to the country though, so I doubt there was much else to do.

I'm one of two. My parents had a telly.