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Omah · 06-05-2011, 04:10 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13303885

Quote:

The Liberal Democrats have suffered heavy losses in councils in the north of England, as Labour make gains in the English local elections.

The Lib Dems have lost control of Hull to Labour, 11 seats in Liverpool and have been overtaken by Labour as the largest party in Sheffield.

Serves 'em right for sleeping with the enemy .....

joeysteele · 06-05-2011, 07:53 AM

It's good news and if they don't think hard on this,they will pay a bigger price in 4 years at the next General election.

arista · 06-05-2011, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It's good news and if they don't think hard on this,they will pay a bigger price in 4 years at the next General election.

You can not say what will happen in 4 years time
you can only guess.

By then Bin Ladens Next in Line could have changed the World.

joeysteele · 06-05-2011, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista

You can not say what will happen in 4 years time
you can only guess.

By then Bin Ladens Next in Line could have changed the World.

Well obviously I can only guess, but history indicates the longer people are kept waiting for some kind of revenge in politics the worse it is.
The Tory party held on to power right to the last minute from 1992 to 1997,when Major eventually had to go to the Nation he was near annihalated by the voters backlash.

Gordon Brown refuse the voters an election in 2007 and kept them waiting until the last minute again in 2010 and he got hammered as well.

However ,apart from all that I didn't say what would happen in 4 years time, I said if you read my post correctly that 'if' the Lib Dems don't think on these results then they will pay a bigger price then. just as Brown and Major did in the examples I give above.

We are entitlled from our thoughts and experiences to say what we think and expect could happen in the future. No law against that to my knowledge.

arista · 06-05-2011, 08:43 AM

But this gives LibDens
4 years to turn it around.

They can still do well
and act as the puppet master,
if at the General Election
Conservative or Labour
do not have enough.

Labour are not good under Ed.
so it could be another Hung Parl.

Clegg this morning

joeysteele · 06-05-2011, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista

But this gives LibDens
4 years to turn it around.

They can still do well
and act as the puppet master,
if at the General Election
Conservative or Labour
do not have enough.

Labour are not good under Ed.
so it could be another Hung Parl.

I dare bet,in fact I already have placed a bet that it will be a hung parliament in 2015, because from my reading of politics it is clear after the 2010 election that the UK is not now a right wing Country as to the majority of its voters.
64% of voters in an election the Conservatives should have walked into power in with an overall majority of at least 30 seats voted against the Conservatives and right wing policies.

In 2010 the Conservatives could only get 36% of the votes, leaving them a clear 7 points ahead of Labour, even with the new boundary changes planned for 2015 the Conservatives will need to be, if the AV vote is lost, at least that again ahead of Labour just to get a bare overall majority,under AV they would have no chance at all of an overall majority unless over 10 points ahead.

I believe firmly the Lib Dems have lost for good the Labour voters who switched to them from 2002,I rate that figure to be at least 5% of their vote,so even with a Lib Dem revival the next election should still see Labour with at least 35% of the votes minimum, the Lib Dems likely 15%,others 11% so that only leaves the Conservatives with a maximum 38/39% left. another hung parliament.

Rarely in politics are bad poll ratings turned around in less than 4 years, 4 years from now we will be almost at the end of the next General election campaign, even with any good successes for this Govt, I cannot see the Lib Dems getting any credit for that. The Conservative party machine will say they, the Conservatives, were able to achieve any success despite the Lib Dems not because of them.

Omah · 06-05-2011, 03:57 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/el...ml/england.stm

Liberal Democrats

Councils___+/-

8_________-8

Councillors_+/-

841_______-579

joeysteele · 06-05-2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omah

Councils

Councillors
Party

Total +/-

Total +/-
Conservative

125 +4

3826 +55
Labour

54 +24

2081 +692
Liberal Democrat

8 -8

841 -579

The Conservatives have done good, they remain where they were in 2007 (from the figures of 2003) and at the election last year.

Labour has done in fairness considerably better,in 2007 they lost 500+ councillors, they have gained so far nearly 700, that means they are in a better position than in 2003,they went on to win an election in 2005 with figures worse than these.

It's an absolute disaster for the Lib Dems and takes them back decades.They still cannot get the voters who trusted them are so angry with them for their turanround completely on major policies and promises.

Even the massive council of Birmingham nearly went to full Labour control, they were only 6 seats away from taking it outright.

Shaun · 06-05-2011, 04:00 PM

the big loss really seems to be the independents / other parties... am shocked that the Conservatives have gained overall, really.

joeysteele · 06-05-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

the big loss really seems to be the independents / other parties... am shocked that the Conservatives have gained overall, really.

I'm not, after all 36% of voters supported the Conservatives at the last election, they have clearly stayed with them and at least the Conservatives are doing what they said they would.

The Lib Dems on the other hand are doing mostly the total opposite of what their policies were and what they promised at the election so that's why they are really being punished more. Amazingly, they just don't get that.

arista · 06-05-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

the big loss really seems to be the independents / other parties... am shocked that the Conservatives have gained overall, really.

I am Not Shocked.

bananarama · 10-05-2011, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

the big loss really seems to be the independents / other parties... am shocked that the Conservatives have gained overall, really.

If you think about it not really surprising the Conservatives have come out well (This time). The cuts are still at mainly planning stages....The true horror is yet to be felt. Also council tax frozen will please the dumb ones amongst us not realising that at some point more jobs will be lost as a result.

At some point the breaks on council tax will have to come off and then it will be like releasing a spring and councils will have to recoup what they have lost or make even more cuts and redundancies....Same old Tory loony right politics that will never work for the better of the country....

MTVN · 06-05-2011, 04:17 PM

I feel sorry for them really, they were in such a difficult situation after the election and Clegg's been the one holding the Coalition together but then gets turned on by the Tory-endorsed No campaign. The Lib Dems are generally very good on a local level as well, it's a shame that voters have punished them so badly

arista · 06-05-2011, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

I feel sorry for them really, they were in such a difficult situation after the election and Clegg's been the one holding the Coalition together but then gets turned on by the Tory-endorsed No campaign. The Lib Dems are generally very good on a local level as well, it's a shame that voters have punished them so badly

Conservatives are OK

BB_Eye · 11-05-2011, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

I feel sorry for them really, they were in such a difficult situation after the election and Clegg's been the one holding the Coalition together but then gets turned on by the Tory-endorsed No campaign. The Lib Dems are generally very good on a local level as well, it's a shame that voters have punished them so badly

I try not to be too judgemental about the fact Clegg entered a Coalition with the Tories, because the LD's focused so heavily on attacking Brown's incumbent government in their election campaign, they would have been labelled hypocrites for choosing Labour instead. However, I am afraid this is a disaster of their own making otherwise. Whatver backroom deals they felt they had to make, nobody forced them to regurgitate virtually every piece of Tory spin, make a u-turn on Tuition Fees, support their slash and burn cuts agenda and VAT rise (remember they supposed to be Keynesians and Vince Cable in fact started out as an SDP member... how does somebody change their mind on this overnight?), and support the underhand privatisation of the NHS.

The Conservatives did NOT have a mandate to lead this country and were in no position to be calling the shots and so I can only surmise that the Libs did this for a little bit of short term stature and a few more seats in cabinet. This is the cancer of the modern politician. Long-term influence and public trust are completely secondary to immediate political gains.

joeysteele · 11-05-2011, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

I try not to be too judgemental about the fact Clegg entered a Coalition with the Tories, because the LD's focused so heavily on attacking Brown's incumbent government in their election campaign, they would have been labelled hypocrites for choosing Labour instead. However, I am afraid this is a disaster of their own making otherwise. Whatver backroom deals they felt they had to make, nobody forced them to regurgitate virtually every piece of Tory spin, make a u-turn on Tuition Fees, support their slash and burn cuts agenda and VAT rise (remember they supposed to be Keynesians and Vince Cable in fact started out as an SDP member... how does somebody change their mind on this overnight?), and support the underhand privatisation of the NHS.

The Conservatives did NOT have a mandate to lead this country and were in no position to be calling the shots and so I can only surmise that the Libs did this for a little bit of short term stature and a few more seats in cabinet. This is the cancer of the modern politician. Long-term influence and public trust are completely secondary to immediate political gains.

Well said, you managed to say all I was thinking in far fewer words than I used. I must learn to say much in little.You are so right that the Conservatives were refused a mandate for their policies by the voters. Also with the policies they presented to voters at the election the Lib Dems then had no mandate from the voters to support the Conservatives implementing their main policies intact.

MTVN · 11-05-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

I try not to be too judgemental about the fact Clegg entered a Coalition with the Tories, because the LD's focused so heavily on attacking Brown's incumbent government in their election campaign, they would have been labelled hypocrites for choosing Labour instead. However, I am afraid this is a disaster of their own making otherwise. Whatver backroom deals they felt they had to make, nobody forced them to regurgitate virtually every piece of Tory spin, make a u-turn on Tuition Fees, support their slash and burn cuts agenda and VAT rise (remember they supposed to be Keynesians and Vince Cable in fact started out as an SDP member... how does somebody change their mind on this overnight?), and support the underhand privatisation of the NHS.

The Conservatives did NOT have a mandate to lead this country and were in no position to be calling the shots and so I can only surmise that the Libs did this for a little bit of short term stature and a few more seats in cabinet. This is the cancer of the modern politician. Long-term influence and public trust are completely secondary to immediate political gains.

Yeah it is ironic to suddenly see Clegg & co nodding along to everything that comes out of Cameron and Osborne's mouth. True, it's hypocritical, but not altogether surprising, any two parties in a coalition need to at least seem to be cooperating or seem to share common ground.

It's a case of pragmatism overriding principles I suppose. They are after all, by far the minority party in this Coalition and it's not really feasible to stick firmly to pre-election pledges, which were made on the basis that they would win a majority anyway. And even though the fees rise will go ahead, I think it's a lot more progressive than it would have been if it was a Tory majority. And they have achieved some of what they had aimed to; the personal tax allowance is on course to increase to £10,000 by the end of this government for one thing. Looks likely that they're going to start being more vocal in their opposition to some Conservative policies as well.

I can understand why some people may be dissapointed but I really do think they've tried to make the best out of the very difficult situation that they've found themselves in.