[Ammi]

..there are many conspiracy theories surrounding things like Rosswell, the assignation of JFK, whether the moon landings were actually faked..is Elvis Presley still alive..etc....do you believe in any conspiracy theories...and which ones..?...

[arista]

No

I deal in Facts

[Niamh.]

I think some of them are interesting, the ones about Kurt Cobains death are amusing but I would never say I believe any of them really not saying some aren't possible but how would I know for sure?

[Stu]

I believe that certain people are half right but that the end goals aren't as sinister of diabolically driven as they are making out.

In a broad sense governments mess up, impose far too much social control and commit heinous acts not because they are driven by evil but because ... well ... they're a bit daft like that, really. A lot of this stuff is still worth pointing out and still worth listening to. You just need to learn to discern.

Someone like David Icke in all honesty has a few interesting things to say on the nature of reality. It's when he gets into dogmatic specifics about his entire overarching world view that things get hilarious. It's well worth sifting through his content though if you have a few hours to spare on an empty weekend.

As usual the truth lies in the middle. Just like hardcore atheists and the dogmatic adherents of the patriarchal religions equally alienate me, so to do the ardent "everything can be answered by a conspiracy theory" bedroom experts and those who want absolutely nothing to do with alternate information because it's for weirdos like me.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Stu

I believe that certain people are half right but that the end goals aren't as sinister of diabolically driven as they are making out.

In a broad sense governments mess up, impose far too much social control and commit heinous acts not because they are driven by evil but because ... well ... they're a bit daft like that, really. A lot of this stuff is still worth pointing out and still worth listening to. You just need to learn to discern.

Someone like David Icke in all honesty has a few interesting things to say on the nature of reality. It's when he gets into dogmatic specifics about his entire overarching world view that things get hilarious. It's well worth sifting through his content though if you have a few hours to spare on an empty weekend.

As usual the truth lies in the middle. Just like hardcore atheists and the dogmatic adherents of the patriarchal religions equally alienate me, so to do the ardent "everything can be answered by a conspiracy theory" bedroom experts and those who want absolutely nothing to do with alternate information because it's for weirdos like me.

..you mean more of a covering up of mistakes which are damaging as opposed to any actual intent to do something..?..

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..you mean more of a covering up of mistakes which are damaging as opposed to any actual intent to do something..?..

Or perhaps a bit of both. People in power can be driven by intense greed and can exhibit all the nastier sides of that trifle known as the human ego. I just think it's in large part the fault of human nature and not done with the sort of ultra malicious, satanic intent on enslaving global government some people make out.

I like what Joe Rogan once said when he claimed anyone actually wanting to be the most powerful man in the world probably shouldn't be allowed.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Stu

Or perhaps a bit of both. People in power can be driven by intense greed and can exhibit all the nastier sides of that trifle known as the human ego. I just think it's in large part the fault of human nature and not done with the sort of ultra malicious, satanic intent on enslaving global government some people make out.

I like what Joe Rogan once said when he claimed anyone actually wanting to be the most powerful man in the world probably shouldn't be allowed.

..yeah, I do agree with that, if you lust for power then you're probably the last person it should be given to..and I think in governments, there must be 'human errors' made which if known would be extremely damaging to them..because nothing is without errors but in some walks of life that has more potential effects than others, so there must be lots of things that are 'covered up' and then maybe hears something/is told something..a half fact type thing and that's how it evolves into a 'conspiracy' but a lot of that might be a Chinese whispers things and things added/misunderstood etc....

..I always find these 'the real truth' type stories interesting though because there isn't anything that couldn't be 'slanted' by only relating some information and leaving the balanced side of it out....

Originally Posted by Stu

I believe that certain people are half right but that the end goals aren't as sinister of diabolically driven as they are making out.

In a broad sense governments mess up, impose far too much social control and commit heinous acts not because they are driven by evil but because ... well ... they're a bit daft like that, really. A lot of this stuff is still worth pointing out and still worth listening to. You just need to learn to discern.

Someone like David Icke in all honesty has a few interesting things to say on the nature of reality. It's when he gets into dogmatic specifics about his entire overarching world view that things get hilarious. It's well worth sifting through his content though if you have a few hours to spare on an empty weekend.

As usual the truth lies in the middle. Just like hardcore atheists and the dogmatic adherents of the patriarchal religions equally alienate me, so to do the ardent "everything can be answered by a conspiracy theory" bedroom experts and those who want absolutely nothing to do with alternate information because it's for weirdos like me.

The truth rarely lies in the middle. More often than not, one side is simply wrong. Hardcore atheist as a weird term to use. Not believing in a god is a position based on what we know - if that changes tomorrow then so would my opinion. It's a common misrepresentation, and is why people get to throw around "atheism is just another religion". It isn't - it just means absence of belief, and it makes no more of a grand claim than that.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

The truth rarely lies in the middle. More often than not, one side is simply wrong. Hardcore atheist as a weird term to use. Not believing in a god is a position based on what we know - if that changes tomorrow then so would my opinion. It's a common misrepresentation, and is why people get to throw around "atheism is just another religion". It isn't - it just means absence of belief, and it makes no more of a grand claim than that.

I used to term 'hardcore' to denote those who have absolute, fixed views based on like you say the absence of belief. The etymology of these words has been dipped in a murky film of misunderstanding since they've begun to be debated in open arenas across forums and YouTube comment sections so I wasn't making reference to some Church Of Atheism more highlighting the strength and conviction of some peoples lack of beliefs [and I'm sure many would argue they require neither strength nor conviction].

My position on spirituality is based on what I feel, not on what I know. It's a much more mushy, arbitrary system that I'm totally open to having other not understand but there you go. When it comes to my whack ass views on these thing I feel equally alienated by atheist mindset and organized religion. I feel I'd rather the atheists have the power just to be on the safe side, but that the more open ended of the religious people are probably on to something greater.

Spoiler:

I
Have
Learned
So much from God
That I can no longer
Call
Myself

A Christian, a Hindu, a Muslim,
a Buddhist, a Jew.

The Truth has shared so much of Itself
With me

That I can no longer call myself
A man, a woman, an angel,
Or even a pure
Soul.

Love has
Befriended Hafiz so completely
It has turned to ash
And freed
Me

Of every concept and image
my mind has ever known

-Hafiz

Anyway ... spiritual waffle from yours truly. Didn't mean to derail the thread.

Originally Posted by Stu

I used to term 'hardcore' to denote those who have absolute, fixed views based on like you say the absence of belief. The etymology of these words has been dipped in a murky film of misunderstanding since they've begun to be debated in open arenas across forums and YouTube comment sections so I wasn't making reference to some Church Of Atheism more highlighting the strength and conviction of some peoples lack of beliefs [and I'm sure many would argue they require neither strength nor conviction].

My position on spirituality is based on what I feel, not on what I know. It's a much more mushy, arbitrary system that I'm totally open to having other not understand but there you go. When it comes to my whack ass views on these thing I feel equally alienated by atheist mindset and organized religion. I feel I'd rather the atheists have the power just to be on the safe side, but that the more open ended of the religious people are probably on to something greater.

Spoiler:

I
Have
Learned
So much from God
That I can no longer
Call
Myself

A Christian, a Hindu, a Muslim,
a Buddhist, a Jew.

The Truth has shared so much of Itself
With me

That I can no longer call myself
A man, a woman, an angel,
Or even a pure
Soul.

Love has
Befriended Hafiz so completely
It has turned to ash
And freed
Me

Of every concept and image
my mind has ever known

-Hafiz

Anyway ... spiritual waffle from yours truly. Didn't mean to derail the thread.

No worries. As always, I like reading what you have to say regardless of whether I agree or not, and you're quite right about how an atheist would view your spirituality - it makes absolutely no sense to me, and I don't really know how I could twist it to make sense. It's personal to you, and I have absolutely no issue with that.

When beliefs (whatever they are) cross over into society and expect privilege is where my issue comes in, and that's where people should be able to prove what they say, rather than leave it relying on special pleading.

[Me. I Am Salman]

They can't all be wrong

[AnnieK]

I really believed the Paul McCartney is dead conspiracy - the info I read all made so much sense. I am incredibly gullible though

[Niamh.]

Annie

The ones about governments having cures for colds/flu/cancer etc but hiding them because they'd cripple the drugs industry may have a ring of truth, well makes me think I wouldn't be surprised anyway!

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Annie

The ones about governments having cures for colds/flu/cancer etc but hiding them because they'd cripple the drugs industry may have a ring of truth, well makes me think I wouldn't be surprised anyway!

..I wonder if that's a conspiracy theory that comes from the fact that some drugs are very reluctantly prescribed because they are very expensive, so maybe a cheaper but possibly less effective alternative could be offered instead...


..I don't know actually, I'm making this up lol...

[GiRTh]

I watched quite a few 911 conspiracy documentaries. Some of them are frankly laughable but some of them will make you think. The link between the Bin Laden family and the Bush family is very peculiar and there are a lot of strange things that happened that day that have not been explained and furthermore no one seems to want to explain them. For instance, the 4744 put stock options on United airlines and American airlines that happened just prior to the disaster, the demolition of Tower 7, the laughable failure of the USA security system.

I think the general consensus is that the official explanation cannot possibly be true. So, who is lying and why?

[GiRTh]

I watched quite a few 911 conspiracy documentaries. Some of them are frankly laughable but some of them will make you think. The link between the Bin Laden family and the Bush family is very peculiar and there are a lot of strange things that happened that day that have not been explained and furthermore no one seems to want to explain them. For instance, the 4744 put stock options on United airlines and American airlines that happened just prior to the disaster, the demolition of Tower 7, the laughable failure of the USA security system.

I think the general consensus is that the official explanation cannot possibly be true. So, who is lying and why?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I watched quite a few 911 conspiracy documentaries. Some of them are frankly laughable but some of them will make you think. The link between the Bin Laden family and the Bush family is very peculiar and there are a lot of strange things that happened that day that have not been explained and furthermore no one seems to want to explain them. For instance, the 4744 put stock options on United airlines and American airlines that happened just prior to the disaster, the demolition of Tower 7, the laughable failure of the USA security system.

I think the general consensus is that the official explanation cannot possibly be true. So, who is lying and why?

..maybe some explanations can't be given because for some reason it would be a threat to National Security to do so ...

[Niamh.]

I reckon if there's some truth to any of them the governments flood the net with other conspiracies to distract people

[Vicky.]

I think its wrong to write off anyone who questions stuff as a conspiracy nut. I really do. Some 'conspiracy theories' in the past have turned out to be anything but theories.

I do believe in a couple..or variations on the 'official' conspiracy anyway

9/11 has always puzzled me. I just dont see how that much could be pulled off without detection, I really dont. I dont believe all the 'bush blew the towers up' stuff, nor that it was missiles. But my opinion is that the American government knew about the attacks and let them happen.

I also believe Diana was murdered, rather than it being an accident

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I think its wrong to write off anyone who questions stuff as a conspiracy nut. I really do. Some 'conspiracy theories' in the past have turned out to be anything but theories.

I do believe in a couple..or variations on the 'official' conspiracy anyway

9/11 has always puzzled me. I just dont see how that much could be pulled off without detection, I really dont. I dont believe all the 'bush blew the towers up' stuff, nor that it was missiles. But my opinion is that the American government knew about the attacks and let them happen.

I also believe Diana was murdered, rather than it being an accident

Why would they do that though?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Why would they do that though?

Now you’re moving into the more crazy theories. Take this with a pinch of salt, but apparently, the Us government wanted to invade all the ‘stan’ countries that used to be part of the old Soviet Union. To make sure China and Russia didn’t have any kind of stronghold over the huge oil reserves in that region and The USA could cement its place as the only super power in the world.#

Its all starting to get a bit paranoid but that’s the theory behind why they let the attack take place. The theory is they let one terrorist attack take place so they can get funding to stop all the others and fulfill their agenda in the middle east. And, they have indeed invaded that region. LOL

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Now you’re moving into the more crazy theories. Take this with a pinch of salt, but apparently, the Us government wanted to invade all the ‘stan’ countries that used to be part of the old Soviet Union. To make sure China and Russia didn’t have any kind of stronghold over the huge oil reserves in that region and The USA could cement its place as the only super power in the world.#

Its all starting to get a bit paranoid but that’s the theory behind why they let the attack take place. The theory is they let one terrorist attack take place so they can fulfill their agenda in the middle east. And, they have indeed invaded that region. LOL

mmmmm, I don't know if I'd even want to know if that were true tbh, that's just the most despicable and disheartening thing I've ever heard :/

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

mmmmm, I don't know if I'd even want to know if that were true tbh, that's just the most despicable and disheartening thing I've ever heard :/

Fascinating and quite frightening isn’t it? Its all bit X-Files.

Theres something else I want to post but I need to do bit of research first. Theres a book written in 1997 by Zbig Bezinski – who worked for Carter, Reagan and Bush Snr – where he outlines a strategy which if you read it is more or less exactly what the US has done. Its quite chilling to read cuz its like a playbook that has been followed step by step and it includes a section where he outlines a plan to let one act of terror succeed so they can have an excuse to invade the ‘stan’ region.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..maybe some explanations can't be given because for some reason it would be a threat to National Security to do so ...

Possibly but to try and cover it up seems even more suspicious.

For instance , someone bought 4744 put stock options on the last day of trading before the disaster on UA and AA stock. They effectively bet the stock was gonna fall. Obviously it did due to the disaster. The NYSE owes someone 2.5 million dollars due to their correct guess that the stock was gonna go down yet no one has ever claimed that money. Some say 4744 is not that high a number but most people agree it is quite high thus it seems someone definitely knew something was gonna happen to United airline and American airlines and its suspicious the fact the trade took place on the last day before the disaster.

The NYSE does not need to disclose who bought the stock but it would be relatively easy for the FBi to find out. Why has no one found out?

Alot of suspicious things happened around the date of September 11 2001.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Possibly but to try and cover it up seems even more suspicious.

For instance , someone bought 4744 put stock options on the last day of trading before the disaster on UA and AA stock. They effectively bet the stock was gonna fall. Obviously it did due to the disaster. The NYSE owes someone 2.5 million dollars due to their correct guess that the stock was gonna go down yet no one has ever claimed that money. Some say 4744 is not that high a number but most people agree it is quite high thus it seems someone definitely knew something was gonna happen to United airline and American airlines and its suspicious the fact the trade took place on the last day before the disaster.

The NYSE does not need to disclose who bought the stock but it would be relatively easy for the FBi to find out. Why has no one found out?

Alot of suspicious things happened around the date of September 11 2001.

..I hadn't heard anything about the stock but if that person did know something, then surely that was quite a stupid thing to do because it would be too obvious and raise questions/suspicions and as you said, the FBI would be able to discover who they were, so what would be the point.. they would know that they couldn't reveal themselves by claiming the money either...I don't have an explanation of why it wasn't claimed but just the fact that it happened at all, seems to me that it was some kind of bizarre random thing....