[arista]

Gender segregation is 'not completely alien to our culture',
says Universities UK chief





We are now going Crazy




"The row over segregation has sparked
protests from students and shadow
business secretary Chuka Umunna
said he was ''horrified'' by
Universities UK's position.
In November a Universities
UK report report presented some
hypothetical case studies which
come up on campuses, including whether
a speaker from an ultra-orthodox
religious group requests an audience
is segregated by gender. "


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-UK-chief.html

[fingers]

This country is going bloody bonkers!

[arista]

Originally Posted by TinyFingeringTim

This country is going bloody bonkers!

It does not help
with the boss of a Uni
who agrees with it.

[michael21]

Originally Posted by arista

It does not help
with the boss of a Uni
who agrees with it.

time for new Uni boss

[Nedusa]

Welcome to Great Britanistan.....!!!!

[user104658]

Voluntary segregation is not apartheid; this would only come into play where guest speakers have requested it and University is not school... attendance of these sorts of events is purely optional. It's self-guided study - you go along if it interests you. If you don't like the guest speaker's seating plan, then don't attend his speaking event. If no one attends his event, then he will not be booked to speak again. Simple as that, really.

Essentially, there are only two reasons that someone would be attending such an event. The first being that they feel like they will identify with or agree with the speaker, the second is for purely educational purposes. If the latter, first hand experience of such segregation in action is a valuable learning experience in itself - you are in a stronger position to argue against something if you have actually experienced it.


If this starts being suggested or enforced in day-to-day lectures or seminars, then we have a problem. As it stands, it would be more restrictive of social freedoms to expressly disallow a speaker at an optional event to put a seating plan in place than it would be to say;

It's their event, they can run it how they want to, and you are free to do what you want with that. You could refuse to attend, you could stage a demonstration outside the lecture theatre itself at the time, you could attend the lecture and speak up...

THAT is what a University education is about. Not moaning and whining and asking the "people in charge" to "ban stuff".

[Livia]

Every event should be open to everyone, always. If someone can be turned away at the door purely because they're the wrong sex - be them male or female - then it's wrong.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Every event should be open to everyone, always. If someone can be turned away at the door purely because they're the wrong sex - be them male or female - then it's wrong.

Did you read the article? It's about segregation not exclusion; e.g. females on the lefthand side of the theatre, males on the right. People being turned away isn't mentioned at all. In fact, it's specifically mentioned that there would be issues if there was to be a notion of advantage (e.g. males at the front and therefore more visible to engage in debate).

Where does it end, otherwise? Who decides where and when it's appropriate to divide a room? In several psychology classes I attended, the classes were asked to sit in various places, for reasons that didn't become clear until towards the end of the hour. And yes, this included male / female divides, but also by age group, clothing colours, etc.

Would this be "banned", too?

I can easily foresee a scenario where a guest lecturer might segregate a lecture hall specifically to later in the lesson make a point about gender segregation in religion (or society in general).

But my main point is, even where it IS a speaker who genuinely wants to segregate, University is a time for finding your voice and having your say. If you don't like his message, you bloody well go along and tell him so... you don't go whining to the "teachers / authorities" like a 12 year old to get them to "ban it". You stand on your own two feet like an adult and state your point.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

Every event should be open to everyone, always. If someone can be turned away at the door purely because they're the wrong sex - be them male or female - then it's wrong.

Bang on Right Livia

[smudgie]

Isn't it all just hypothetical so far?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Santa-gnome-ears

Isn't it all just hypothetical so far?

No in London its now doing that
due to Muslims

[Jordan.]

Let's extend Salmans ban

[Marsh.]

So, they're coming into our country and demanding we adopt to their rules?

Yet whinge when we question their own personal codes of conduct?

I don't wish to sound racist at all, but either deal with it or bloody go home.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

So, they're coming into our country and demanding we adopt to their rules?

Yet whinge when we question their own personal codes of conduct?

I don't wish to sound racist at all, but either deal with it or bloody go home.

[Me. I Am Salman]

I hope no uni is idiotic and weak enough to implement this

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Welcome to Great Britanistan.....!!!!

Originally Posted by 08marsh

So, they're coming into our country and demanding we adopt to their rules?

Yet whinge when we question their own personal codes of conduct?

I don't wish to sound racist at all, but either deal with it or bloody go home.

Sigh, it was inevitable Islam is a RELIGION not a race, where are they mean to go? cuz I bet most of them were born here

It's funny because the people who get so worked up when being branded racist for slating Islam tend to always get race involved first

[MTVN]

What do Muslims even have to do with this? Nowhere are they or Islam mentioned in the article, they raise the hypothetical situation that there be "a speaker from an ultra-orthodox religious group request an audience is segregated by gender" but why would that be exclusive to Islam, to me it seems to be referring more to ultra-orthodox Judaism if anything

[arista]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

What do Muslims even have to do with this? Nowhere are they or Islam mentioned in the article, they raise the hypothetical situation that there be "a speaker from an ultra-orthodox religious group request an audience is segregated by gender" but why would that be exclusive to Islam, to me it seems to be referring more to ultra-orthodox Judaism if anything

It may be to do with the Muslim Funders of that University


There was a Angry Debate on Ch4News , a day ago

[user104658]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

What do Muslims even have to do with this? Nowhere are they or Islam mentioned in the article

It's fairly evident that pretty much no one commenting on this thread read the article... given that you're right, there's no mention of Muslims at all, and also, it also doesn't say anything anywhere about anyone not being allowed into lectures.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

What do Muslims even have to do with this? Nowhere are they or Islam mentioned in the article, they raise the hypothetical situation that there be "a speaker from an ultra-orthodox religious group request an audience is segregated by gender" but why would that be exclusive to Islam, to me it seems to be referring more to ultra-orthodox Judaism if anything

this.

As usual, articles like this have had the desired effect and people are posting the usual outrage, yet it doesn't even mention Islam in the article. I think thats very interesting.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

What do Muslims even have to do with this? Nowhere are they or Islam mentioned in the article, they raise the hypothetical situation that there be "a speaker from an ultra-orthodox religious group request an audience is segregated by gender" but why would that be exclusive to Islam, to me it seems to be referring more to ultra-orthodox Judaism if anything

I can't remember ever being asked to sit somewhere specific because I'm a female Jew. And if I was, I would be JUST as much against it as I would be if a Muslim woman was asked the same thing.

I can't see how a comparison can be drawn between Judaism in the UK and Islam in the UK, because there is no correlation at all.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

I can't remember ever being asked to sit somewhere specific because I'm a female Jew. And if I was, I would be JUST as much against it as I would be if a Muslim woman was asked the same thing.

I can't see how a comparison can be drawn between Judaism in the UK and Islam in the UK, because there is no correlation at all.

I was specifically referring to the part of the article that talks about people of "ultra orthodox faith". That phrase 'ultra orthodox' is mostly used to refer to an extreme tenet of Judaism and one that does advocate gender segregation

[Livia]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

I was specifically referring to the part of the article that talks about people of "ultra orthodox faith". That phrase 'ultra orthodox' is mostly used to refer to an extreme tenet of Judaism and one that does advocate gender segregation

I think their use of the word "orthodox" was referring to orthodox religions in general. I don't think they were referring to any one religion in particular, and neither was I.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think their use of the word "orthodox" was referring to orthodox religions in general. I don't think they were referring to any one religion in particular, and neither was I.

I didn't say that you were? My original comment asking why Muslims were being talked about specifically was more responding to the thread title

[arista]

The Muslim was on the Ch4 news Angry Debate

[user104658]

Originally Posted by arista

The Muslim was on the Ch4 news Angry Debate

Not THE Muslim, surely?