[JoshBB]

My personal opinion is that no religion should be given priority and that the spiritual lords should not have places based purely on religion. Thoughts? Discuss below and there's a poll too.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes its a natural progression

Also get it right out of schools. Pupils should be taught that no gods exist and that religion flourishes with ignorance and dies with education.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Yes its a natural progression

Also get it right out of schools. Pupils should be taught that no gods exist and that religion flourishes with ignorance and dies with education.

I don't think we can disprove/prove a God, so surely it would be better to simply teach that some believe that a God exists and some believe there is no God.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I don't think we can disprove/prove a God, so surely it would be better to simply teach that some believe that a God exists and some believe there is no God.

By the same argument you may as well include the loch ness monster, the giant galaxy turtle and betty the spotted goat god from Venus.

All cant be proved or disproved

I am afraid that is not a valid argument

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

By the same argument you may as well include the loch ness monster, the giant galaxy turtle and betty the spotted goat god from Venus.

All cant be proved or disproved

I am afraid that is not a valid argument

I agree that it is not a valid argument if you are using it to try and suggest a God exists, but since we cannot outright disprove these things exist I think it would be unfair to suggest as such. I would be outraged in that situation. When we have 100% evidence that no gods exist, I am then in favour of removing religion from schools altogether. Teaching a known lie seems utterly pointless to me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I agree that it is not a valid argument if you are using it to try and suggest a God exists, but since we cannot outright disprove these things exist I think it would be unfair to suggest as such. I would be outraged in that situation. When we have 100% evidence that no gods exist, I am then in favour of removing religion from schools altogether. Teaching a known lie seems utterly pointless to me.

Like all fables it should be taught as such. Do gods exist? - no they do not. Are faeries real? No. Do mediums speak to the dead? No. What happens when we die? We rot away. Is there life after death? No. Astrology? Bollocks. Ghosts? Bollocks. Is Kirk too fond of betting? Yes.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

By the same argument you may as well include the loch ness monster, the giant galaxy turtle and betty the spotted goat god from Venus.

All cant be proved or disproved

I am afraid that is not a valid argument

You can't stop people believing in something because you don't believe in it, Trumpet. There are lots of things that can't be proven by science, the existence of God is just one of them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

You can't stop people believing in something because you don't believe in it, Trumpet. There are lots of things that can't be proven by science, the existence of God is just one of them.

We teach children the best knowledge we have available today and not hearsay from a book 2000 years old from a part of the world that if they told us tomorrow was Wednesday we would check the calendar.

If they wish to believe it when they are adults fine, like star trek, but children should be shielded from religion at all costs.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Yes its a natural progression

Also get it right out of schools. Pupils should be taught that no gods exist and that religion flourishes with ignorance and dies with education.

OK. I'll agree, if we start right out with err.... Let me ponder.... Oh, yeah, I've got it.... Islam!

Yeah. Let's ban that from being taught in UK schools, and let's close all Mosques first before we start on Christianity and Judaism and the other religions.

So who's going to be first then in starting a public campaign to achieve this? Josh or LT?

Somehow, I think if anything remotely similar to this stupid neo-Nazi proposition is ever tried, the first and only targets would be Christianity and Judaism, because they are perceived as having moderate followers so represent soft targets. That would be a HUGE error of judgement.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

OK. I'll agree, if we start right out with err.... Let me ponder.... Oh, yeah, I've got it.... Islam!

Yeah. Let's ban that from being taught in UK schools, and let's close all Mosques first before we start on Christianity and Judaism and the other religions.

So who's going to be first then in starting a public campaign to achieve this? Josh or LT?

Somehow, I think if anything remotely similar to this stupid neo-Nazi proposition is ever tried, the first and only targets would be Christianity and Judaism, because they are perceived as having moderate followers so represent soft targets. That would be a HUGE error of judgement.

I am not in favour of banning religion being taught in schools, as long as they state that there is actually no proper evidence for the religion (none can be proven). If there was an islamic established church I would want that disestablished the same way.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I am not in favour of banning religion being taught in schools, as long as they state that there is actually no proper evidence for the religion (none can be proven). If there was an islamic established church I would want that disestablished the same way.

We cannot prove or disprove a host of other theories which are taught in schools as fact including Evolution.

Heinrich Schliemann did not discover Troy or Agamemnon's treasure - he actually excavated way below the ruins of Troy and planted the treasure, but such fallacies are still being taught in schools and even universities.

And Islamic 'churches' Josh are Mosques and there are thousands of them in the UK.

I personally do not care if Christianity is not taught in schools as part of the curriculum, but I am quite certain that millions of other Christians do care.

What I do care about - very deeply - is that Christianity is not removed from school curriculum exclusively and for the wrong B.S. P.C. reasons.

[Livia]

Everyone has a right to follow their own faith. However, I believe the way forward is to have a more secular society. I believe that religion should be taught in schools, but it should be a broad overview of religions. If you want to study your own religion you should do it in your own time.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No children should be allowed in mosques or churches. If you want to go and learn or follow a religion it should be adults only. Let a kid get to 18 and make his or her own mind up.

If this happened religion would rapidly die out, especially Islam

[MTVN]

If all mention of religion in schools was abolished then kids are going to grow up with massive gaps in their knowledge when it comes to history, society, current affairs etc. I don't think it's something you can completely separate from education

On topic I have no issue with the current relationship between Church and state

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by MTVN

If all mention of religion in schools was abolished then kids are going to grow up with massive gaps in their knowledge when it comes to history, society, current affairs etc. I don't think it's something you can completely separate from education

On topic I have no issue with the current relationship between Church and state

Its quite easy to cover religion in a couple of lessons just as we cover all sorts of things. If we did keep it out of schools perhaps in a few generations we would not need to cover it and more time could be spent on science and cosmology.

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its quite easy to cover religion in a couple of lessons just as we cover all sorts of things. If we did keep it out of schools perhaps in a few generations we would not need to cover it and more time could be spent on science and cosmology.

A couple of lessons? I think it'd take way longer than that to cover religion

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Dollface

A couple of lessons? I think it'd take way longer than that to cover religion

why?

You cover why people believe and set it in historical context and then cover the main cults.

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by MTVN

If all mention of religion in schools was abolished then kids are going to grow up with massive gaps in their knowledge when it comes to history, society, current affairs etc. I don't think it's something you can completely separate from education

On topic I have no issue with the current relationship between Church and state

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by MTVN

If all mention of religion in schools was abolished then kids are going to grow up with massive gaps in their knowledge when it comes to history, society, current affairs etc. I don't think it's something you can completely separate from education

On topic I have no issue with the current relationship between Church and state

this tbh

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

If all mention of religion in schools was abolished then kids are going to grow up with massive gaps in their knowledge when it comes to history, society, current affairs etc. I don't think it's something you can completely separate from education

On topic I have no issue with the current relationship between Church and state

Brilliant post MT.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Brilliant post MT.

why

when has not knowing about religion ever caused anyone an issue?

"you mean you dont know about Ganesh the Elephant headed Hindu god, well you cannot work at Starbucks"

"what, you have never heard of allah the prophet, well i am sorry a career in horticulture is not for you"

"do you mean to say that Jesus being magic and walking on water has escaped you, in tat case i am revoking your brain surgeon license"



give me a break

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

why

when has not knowing about religion ever caused anyone an issue?

"you mean you dont know about Ganesh the Elephant headed Hindu god, well you cannot work at Starbucks"

"what, you have never heard of allah the prophet, well i am sorry a career in horticulture is not for you"

"do you mean to say that Jesus being magic and walking on water has escaped you, in tat case i am revoking your brain surgeon license"



give me a break

If those little snippets are all you think religious education amounts to then there are some huge gaps in your own education.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

If those little snippets are all you think religious education amounts to then there are some huge gaps in your own education.

let me sum it up for you morsh

"be nice to people"


there endeth the fecking lesson




(and if you are not then we kill you)

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

why

when has not knowing about religion ever caused anyone an issue?

Give me a break

Let's pose the question another way; What about all the thousands of conflicts and wars which have been fought by man which had no religious cause or element at all?

WW 1
WW 2
Vietnam.

In fact, I'll leave it to the experts:

According to the 'Encyclopedia of Wars':

"Of the 1,763 major conflicts in recorded history, only 123 of them can be classified as having been fought over religious differences. That’s less than 7 percent.

The encyclopedia also explains that the number of people killed in these conflicts amounts to only two percent. This means that even when wars have been fought over religious disputes, they tend to be less bloody than when they are fought for other reasons."

More on this from Rabbi Alan Lurie:

"History simply does not support the hypothesis that religion is the major cause of conflict. The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever."

More:

What about all the millions of annual cases worldwide of murders, street crimes, domestic abuse, beatings, robberies, rapes, child abuse etc. etc. --
-- none of which are caused by religion, and all of which are carried out by humans who are not religious?

What about all this?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Let's pose the question another way; What about all the thousands of conflicts and wars which have been fought by man which had no religious cause or element at all?

WW 1
WW 2
Vietnam.

In fact, I'll leave it to the experts:

According to the 'Encyclopedia of Wars':

"Of the 1,763 major conflicts in recorded history, only 123 of them can be classified as having been fought over religious differences. That’s less than 7 percent.

The encyclopedia also explains that the number of people killed in these conflicts amounts to only two percent. This means that even when wars have been fought over religious disputes, they tend to be less bloody than when they are fought for other reasons."

More on this from Rabbi Alan Lurie:

"History simply does not support the hypothesis that religion is the major cause of conflict. The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

Medieval and Renaissance wars were also typically about control and wealth as city-states vied for power, often with the support, but rarely instigation, of the Church. And the Mongol Asian rampage, which is thought to have killed nearly 30 million people, had no religious component whatsoever."

More:

What about all the millions of annual cases worldwide of murders, street crimes, domestic abuse, beatings, robberies, rapes, child abuse etc. etc. --
-- none of which are caused by religion, and all of which are carried out by humans who are not religious?

What about all this?