[AProducer'sWetDream]

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-...-17-year-olds/



"In the latest of a string of defeats for the government, peers voted by 293 to 211 to approve the reform by a majority of 82 during a debate on the report stage of the European Union Referendum Bill.

If the Government allows the move to stand it would see some 1.5m 16 and 17 year olds eligible to take part in the referendum."



Not sure what to think of this- on the one hand, sixteen and seventeen year olds are eligible to pay taxes, so should have a say on how it is spent, but on the other hand, how many sixteen and seventeen year olds work and earn money?

[MB.]

Good

[Kizzy]

A democratic right to vote is nothing to do with earnings.

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

A democratic right to vote is nothing to do with earnings.

It was just an example, obviously there are many who do not work or pay taxes and still have a right to vote. Just as there are many sixteen and seventeen year olds currently working and paying taxes.

I guess the point I was trying to make was: if we deem people of this age responsible enough to do things like get married and join the army, they should also have the right to vote. But we also have laws that prevent under-18s from doing a lot of other things, so do we consider them responsible enough or not?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by AProducer'sWetDream

It was just an example, obviously there are many who do not work or pay taxes and still have a right to vote. Just as there are many sixteen and seventeen year olds currently working and paying taxes.

I guess the point I was trying to make was: if we deem people of this age responsible enough to do things like get married and join the army, they should also have the right to vote. But we also have laws that prevent under-18s from doing a lot of other things, so do we consider them responsible enough or not?

..I'm not sure that voting at 18yrs would add any more 'responsible enough' but just make young people two years older..whatever the age is, I think that people in general, will either inform themselves to vote or they won't...that applies I think to all ages...anyways I would say yes, that 16yr olds should be eligible to vote because 16yr olds are the future...I guess the pointlessness of age is that many who are eligible, don't use their vote...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I'm not sure that voting at 18yrs would add any more 'responsible enough' but just make young people two years older..whatever the age is, I think that people in general, will either inform themselves to vote or they won't...that applies I think to all ages...anyways I would say yes, that 16yr olds should be eligible to vote because 16yr olds are the future...I guess the pointlessness of age is that many who are eligible, don't use their vote...

Hallelujah, exactly right and that is the whole point of why they should be able to vote,it is their futures too.
Also the precedent has been already set in the UK when the Scottish parliament was able to permit 16 year olds to vote in that referendum, which this govt also permitted to happen.
Oh really well said and all excellent and fair points too from you Ammi.

[LeatherTrumpet]

let me give it to you straight

at 16 you know fck all about fck all

BUT this makes you learn

I applaud it

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

let me give it to you straight

at 16 you know fck all about fck all

BUT this makes you learn

I applaud it

Oh sooooo TRUE. But at 16 we all THOUGHT we KNEW it ALL. That's plain dangerous today.

[Denver]

But are they going to vote sensibly? Because the voters didn't in the last election.

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Adam.

But are they going to vote sensibly? Because the voters did in the last election.

Well some grown adults don't vote sensibly so it's not going to make a difference

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jake.

Well some grown adults don't vote sensibly so it's not going to make a difference

Looking at the results of the last 3 elections you are truly spot on.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Looking at the results of the last 3 elections you are truly spot on.

Go Joey mate.

[joeysteele]

They absolutely should be able to vote, for me they should now have the vote generally anyway.

Certainly however in this EU referendum for the simple reason this is a decision not likely to have to be made again or not for a very long time.
These groups will be able to vote in the next general election and therefore should be given the vote in this EU referendum.
It is their futures too after all,in fact even moreso.

It is a total disgrace to the Conservative party that they ever tried to refuse the vote to them too.

[Johnnyuk123]

They can vote but only after they have cleaned their room.

[JoshBB]

Good!

This will mean that I am able to vote in the EU referendum, right now I am currently more swayed by the 'Stay' arguments but I look forward to the debates.

[empire]

no, schools brainwash the young, and teachers put their own political ideology into their minds, and because these teachers come out of oxford, and other places, that is rife with marxism. they would just tell their students to vote to stay in the eu, rather than making their own minds up,

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

They absolutely should be able to vote, for me they should now have the vote generally anyway.

Certainly however in this EU referendum for the simple reason this is a decision not likely to have to be made again or not for a very long time.
These groups will be able to vote in the next general election and therefore should be given the vote in this EU referendum.
It is their futures too after all,in fact even moreso.

It is a total disgrace to the Conservative party that they ever tried to refuse the vote to them too.

It'll come back to bite them, don't worry.

Originally Posted by empire

no, schools brainwash the young, and teachers put their own political ideology into their minds, and because these teachers come out of oxford, and other places, that is rife with marxism. they would just tell their students to vote to stay in the eu, rather than making their own minds up,

How many schools have you gone to recently, empire? Because in my school, politics is a subject not really visited ever except for in RE when we discuss abortion/euthanasia laws, and in English when we are studying a book with political themes to theme. We've read Animal Farm, and let me tell you that there weren't any teachers promoting marxism whatsoever.

I also don't know where this "people on the left like the eu" thing came about either, because there is quite a lot of euroscepticism among socialists and especially communists actually.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

How many schools have you gone to recently, empire? Because in my school, politics is a subject not really visited ever except for in RE when we discuss abortion/euthanasia laws, and in English when we are studying a book with political themes to theme. We've read Animal Farm, and let me tell you that there weren't any teachers promoting marxism whatsoever.

I also don't know where this "people on the left like the eu" thing came about either, because there is quite a lot of euroscepticism among socialists and especially communists actually.

Do you think politics should be part of senior schools national curriculum ? Politics play such a big part in our life whether we know it or not.

I've never been a supporter of the national curriculum, but it would be a necessary evil if we were to start teaching politics as one of the main subjects.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Do you think politics should be part of senior schools national curriculum ? Politics play such a big part in our life whether we know it or not.

I've never been a supporter of the national curriculum, but it would be a necessary evil if we were to start teaching politics as one of the main subjects.

yes

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Do you think politics should be part of senior schools national curriculum ? Politics play such a big part in our life whether we know it or not.

I've never been a supporter of the national curriculum, but it would be a necessary evil if we were to start teaching politics as one of the main subjects.

Yes - absolutely. It is as important as the three 'R's'.

[Ashley.]

16-17 year olds I imagine would be likely to either copy others or let insignificant factors affect their vote (such as the legalisation of certain drugs ) but as LT said, it could go the other way and could teach them to make mature decisions whilst learning a thing or two about politics.

A completely different way of looking at it is that parties may alter their target audience and make promises that they believe will get the younger generation on their side. But I don't know how probable that is.

In regards to the referendum, meh, I'm not sure how educated 16-17 year olds are in that area nowadays.

[MB.]

Those who are passionate about politics will vote and those who aren't interested won't vote, simple - it's not just a case of 'they're going to copy their parents/vote for who wants to legalise certain drugs/vote for who wants to give everyone free skateboards and backwards baseball caps and rock and roll CDS!!!'

[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by MB.

Those who are passionate about politics will vote and those who aren't interested won't vote, simple - it's not just a case of 'they're going to copy their parents/vote for who wants to legalise certain drugs/vote for who wants to give everyone free skateboards and backwards baseball caps and rock and roll CDS!!!'

There's no definite "will" or "won't", we'll find out what happens when it happens.

[zakman440]

Good, now they need to extend this to General Elections.

[bitontheslide]

i hope the government reverse the lords amendment. 16 year old's shouldn't be voting on anything important to the country.

Why people don't see this for what it is, I will never know - all this is doing is delaying the vote.