[Beso]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...Y1GKSSaS0J3RVA



Best not mess with thier human rights.

[Cherie]

Those poor people fleeing for their lives, how can we help people in this situation its heartbreaking

[Vanessa]

I just don't know how they can be helped. It's heartbreaking.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by parmnion

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...Y1GKSSaS0J3RVA



Best not mess with thier human rights.

Trouble with those that bleat on about human rights all the time is they don't seem to be able to differentiate between the ones that matter and the ones that don't. PC gets in the way and clouds their judgement as usual. All or nothing in their books, but real life says differently as can be seen here.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Trouble with those that bleat on about human rights all the time is they don't seem to be able to differentiate between the ones that matter and the ones that don't. PC gets in the way and clouds their judgement as usual. All or nothing in their books, but real life says differently as can be seen here.

Scrapping human rights laws will apply to everyone, not just 'the bad ones' unfortunately. A balance is needed. I do agree we should be able to deport without all the hooha...but that wouldn't have helped these poor people :/

[bots]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Scrapping human rights laws will apply to everyone, not just 'the bad ones' unfortunately. A balance is needed. I do agree we should be able to deport without all the hooha...but that wouldn't have helped these poor people :/

Actually, it may have if they had been able to take action against that guy that appeared on that C4 documentary.

I agree that we should be incredibly careful on how we handle human rights. Tony Blair took action with the control orders after 7/7 ... but, those were challenged and revoked. So the safeguards are still in place via UK law to protect us

If nothing else, if the debate is opened up as to how we can tackle this, it can only be a good thing surely.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Actually, it may have if they had been able to take action against that guy that appeared on that C4 documentary.

I agree that we should be incredibly careful on how we handle human rights. Tony Blair took action with the control orders after 7/7 ... but, those were challenged and revoked. So the safeguards are still in place via UK law to protect us

If nothing else, if the debate is opened up as to how we can tackle this, it can only be a good thing surely.

That's not an issue of Human Rights though, it's a matter of inaction.

Mosques and their patrons are reporting extremism but I believe it's a lack of funding that is preventing action being taken. When it comes to Terrorism, this government is all lip service when it comes to prevention, they'd much rather erode our rights to their own advantage.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Scrapping human rights laws will apply to everyone, not just 'the bad ones' unfortunately. A balance is needed. I do agree we should be able to deport without all the hooha...but that wouldn't have helped these poor people :/

Oh vicky that is so untrue.

This **** that appeared on the jihadi next door programme, if things had been in place then he would have either been locked up or deported and every single person who died on saturday night and since would all still be alive and enjoying life.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Oh vicky that is so untrue.

This **** that appeared on the jihadi next door programme, if things had been in place then he would have either been locked up or deported and every single person who died on saturday night and since would all still be alive and enjoying life.

Every single person who died on Saturday would have been alive? There were 2 other people carrying out the attack?

I get what you are saying but I think its a very dangerous route to be going down where, for example someone can be locked up on suspicion of doing something, when they may not have even been doing that if that makes sense? This will affect us all...not just the bad people.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-of-terrorists

Starmer, a former director of public prosecutions who oversaw dozens of terror cases, said Theresa May was misguided to focus on human rights law rather than policing cuts.

“There is no incompatibility between protecting human rights and taking effective action against terrorists,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

“If we start throwing away our adherence to human rights in response to what has happened in the last three months, we are throwing away the values at the heart of the democracy, everything that we say we believe in.”

Starmer said he had never found human rights law a barrier to successful prosecutions of terrorists or those preparing acts of terrorism. “I know because I did it for five years,” he said. “We did not run into the Human Rights Act as a problem preventing successful prosecutions. We put a lot of people away for a very long time.”

This whole human rights thing is simply to take the heat off May about the cuts to security services. Nothing more. Removing human rights would not have lead to the Jihadi guy off the c4 program being jailed or deported. I do however think that MI5 were wrong in their assessment of how dangerous this guy was and as such stopped focusing on him.

In short, I disagree that someone should ever be locked up or deported simply because we think they are planning something. But if there is enough evidence they actually are then of course we should be able to lock them up (preferably in solitary, so they can not radicalize other people in prison) but we can do this already, and do do this already. Intelligence agencies get it wrong sometimes though.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Every single person who died on Saturday would have been alive? There were 2 other people carrying out the attack?

I get what you are saying but I think its a very dangerous route to be going down where, for example someone can be locked up on suspicion of doing something, when they may not have even been doing that if that makes sense? This will affect us all...not just the bad people.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-of-terrorists



This whole human rights thing is simply to take the heat off May about the cuts to security services. Nothing more. Removing human rights would not have lead to the Jihadi guy off the c4 program being jailed or deported. I do however think that MI5 were wrong in their assessment of how dangerous this guy was and as such stopped focusing on him.

In short, I disagree that someone should ever be locked up or deported simply because we think they are planning something. But if there is enough evidence they actually are then of course we should be able to lock them up (preferably in solitary, so they can not radicalize other people in prison) but we can do this already, and do do this already.

Intelligence agencies get it wrong sometimes though.

Course they would be alive. Maybe a different set of people would be dead, but everyone on saturday would still be alive.


Arrest everyone connected to him and waterboard them.

[Kazanne]

Imagine having to live like that,terrible the things they do,but the scumbags have human rights so we must sit and chat to them !!!!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Imagine having to live like that,terrible the things they do,but the scumbags have human rights so we must sit and chat to them !!!!

Well, this whole taking away peoples human rights is only going to end up with innocent people getting punished and probably making more people wanting to join ISIS.

If you take the IRA as an example, breaching Irish peoples human rights resulted in the Birmingham 6 and the Guilford 4 spending over 20 years in person. Internment camps used for the IRA or suspected IRA members resulted in more of an anti British sentiment amongst Irish people who weren't in the IRA which resulted in more innocent Irish people feeling prosecuted for doing nothing which resulted in more people becoming easier pickings for recruitment.

What stopped the IRA was talking......

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, this whole taking away peoples human rights is only going to end up with innocent people getting punished and probably making more people wanting to join ISIS.

If you take the IRA as an example, breaching Irish peoples human rights resulted in the Birmingham 6 and the Guilford 4 spending over 20 years in person. Internment camps used for the IRA or suspected IRA members resulted in more of an anti British sentiment amongst Irish people who weren't in the IRA which resulted in more innocent Irish people feeling prosecuted for doing nothing which resulted in more people becoming easier pickings for recruitment.

What stopped the IRA was talking......

Do you think they would sit and talk Niamh? TM said herself she will not be taking away all human rights but will be able to alter them where terrorists are concerned,like being able to have them deported etc.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Do you think they would sit and talk Niamh? TM said herself she will not be taking away all human rights but will be able to alter them where terrorists are concerned,like being able to have them deported etc.

It's not that anyone wants to protect ISIS terrorists which seems to be the thing thrown at people who are against human rights breaches it's just that breaching human rights leaves a huge opening for innocent peoples human rights to be breached with no protection from anyone and that's dangerous imo. And you can say Oh but ISIS are dangerous but that's ok? and the answer is of course it's not but the answer is not to become animals like them because we are not terrorists and we shouldn't be ok with innocent people being collateral damage like they are.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Do you think they would sit and talk Niamh? TM said herself she will not be taking away all human rights but will be able to alter them where terrorists are concerned,like being able to have them deported etc.

TM cannot make laws that only affect some people. They have to apply to all. So if she has said this, its another outright lie.

I agree with Niamh, though do not think talking would help with the isis situation. The IRA had a clear aim that was able to be resolved with dialogue. What ISIS want is all westerners dead. Theres no room for compromise to help the situation. All thats going to help is having foot soldiers there to kill the bastards. Its kill or be killed in this case unfortunately. But bombing and such isn't working as we are killing innocent people too. In many ways we are no better than ISIS as our immediate response is 'bomb the **** out of their countries'

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

TM cannot make laws that only affect some people. They have to apply to all. So if she has said this, its another outright lie.

I agree with Niamh, though do not think talking would help with the isis situation. The IRA had a clear aim that was able to be resolved with dialogue. What ISIS want is all westerners dead. Theres no room for compromise to help the situation. All thats going to help is having foot soldiers there to kill the bastards. Its kill or be killed in this case unfortunately. But bombing and such isn't working as we are killing innocent people too. In many ways we are no better than ISIS as our immediate response is 'bomb the **** out of their countries'

Yes obviously the two are not similar in that respect but what is similar is if you target all Irish people all you will do is make those people think "hey maybe the IRA are right, we shouldn't be treated like this when our only crime is being Irish" etc that can easily be applied to Muslims in this scenario if they're being told "we're breaching your human rights because you're Muslim so might be a terrorist but hey if you aren't than you should be happy to be water boarded/deported/imprisoned"

[Anaesthesia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, this whole taking away peoples human rights is only going to end up with innocent people getting punished and probably making more people wanting to join ISIS.

If you take the IRA as an example, breaching Irish peoples human rights resulted in the Birmingham 6 and the Guilford 4 spending over 20 years in person. Internment camps used for the IRA or suspected IRA members resulted in more of an anti British sentiment amongst Irish people who weren't in the IRA which resulted in more innocent Irish people feeling prosecuted for doing nothing which resulted in more people becoming easier pickings for recruitment.

What stopped the IRA was talking......

Well said Niamh, and I think many tend to forget we have faced terrorism here before without feeling the need to strip everyone of their rights and protections.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Anaesthesia

Well said Niamh, and I think many tend to forget we have faced terrorism here before without feeling the need to strip everyone of their rights and protections.

But didnt niamh just say the ira did suffer some human rights interference?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

But didnt niamh just say the ira did suffer some human rights interference?

Not just the IRA which is the point I was making but who cares if innocent Irish people were punished, eh?

[Anaesthesia]

Originally Posted by parmnion

But didnt niamh just say the ira did suffer some human rights interference?

Yes she did. And ordinary Irish people had to suffer the suspicion and hatred and be lumped in with them...causing rightful injustice and feelings of marginalisation which in turn only lead to bitterness, hatred, and an increased likelihood of radicalisation.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...Y1GKSSaS0J3RVA



Best not mess with thier human rights.

What?

RIP to all those poor people

[Northern Monkey]

I think they are getting desperate now because we're defeating them in Iraq.Their land is diminishing

[Withano]

Obviously the Human Rights 1998 UK legislation act only applies to those from the UK or we wouldnt have killed in unjust war since that time. What an odd and insensitive way to make a point... not to mention irrelevant and incorrect.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Obviously the Human Rights 1998 UK legislation act only applies to those from the UK or we wouldnt have killed in unjust war since that time. What an odd and insensitive way to make a point... not to mention irrelevant and incorrect.

Also yes, this.

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by Withano

Obviously the Human Rights 1998 UK legislation act only applies to those from the UK or we wouldnt have killed in unjust war since that time. What an odd and insensitive way to make a point... not to mention irrelevant and incorrect.