[Liberty4eva]

I don't believe America is the best country to live in or at least I think such labels are silly. Some things we do better than other countries and some we don't. One thing I believe we do better than just about any other country is we have a culture that genuinely believes in freedom of speech, even if they find that speech distasteful. When I look across to Europe and I see 80 year old women being jailed for years for daring to question the official version of the Holocaust, I love that we have a written constitution that is almost impossible to change with the first amendment. So I found this video and I think the message is profound. A man uses his freedom of speech to put a Nazi flag up on his property. All the neighbors found it distasteful but not one dared question his right to do that. Instead, one of them used his freedom of speech to bring attention to this. Although I would not fly a Nazi flag in my backyard, this video is one of the rare times these days when I am proud of my country.

Youtube video

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

I don't believe America is the best country to live in or at least I think such labels are silly. Some things we do better than other countries and some we don't. One thing I believe we do better than just about any other country is we have a culture that genuinely believes in freedom of speech, even if they find that speech distasteful. When I look across to Europe and I see 80 year old women being jailed for years for daring to question the official version of the Holocaust, I love that we have a written constitution that is almost impossible to change with the first amendment. So I found this video and I think the message is profound. A man uses his freedom of speech to put a Nazi flag up on his property. All the neighbors found it distasteful but not one dared question his right to do that. Instead, one of them used his freedom of speech to bring attention to this. Although I would not fly a Nazi flag in my backyard, this video is one of the rare times these days when I am proud of my country.

Youtube video

Personally I don't see much difference between a nazi flag and a Burkha, both are shoving discrimination down our throats. I suppose the difference for me would be that the flag is on private property whereas the wearing of a burkha is allowed on public streets and in public places.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Personally I don't see much difference between a nazi flag and a Burkha, both are shoving discrimination down our throats. I suppose the difference for me would be that the flag is on private property whereas the wearing of a burkha is allowed on public streets and in public places.

I do differ from the "alt-righters" on this website at least on this issue. I feel we should be able to wear what we would like in public as long as it does not directly harm other people. So walking down the street with a Burkha should be legal (as long as the person is voluntarily wearing it of course) but driving with a Burkha or getting your driver's license photo with it is another story. In that situation what they are doing is putting other people in jeopardy.

If the British, French, or whomever don't like it when people wear the Burkha you might want to think about stopping the immigration of people who will be inclined to wear the Burkha. It's not rocket science.

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

If the British, French, or whomever don't like it when people wear the Burkha you might want to think about stopping the immigration of people who will be inclined to wear the Burkha. It's not rocket science.

Please don't speak for us, especially innacurately.

In one breath you speak about people's rights to wear what they want to and in the next you advocate an immigration ban for those people for exercising those rights.
The immigration ban crap wasn't accepted in your country and gladly isn't even on the table in ours.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by JTM45

Please don't speak for us, especially innacurately.

In one breath you speak about people's rights to wear what they want to and in the next you advocate an immigration ban for those people for exercising those rights.
The immigration ban crap wasn't accepted in your country and gladly isn't even on the table in ours.

So can anyone wear an item of clothing i.e. tee shirt or dress with a large swastika, ISIS or anti-Islam flag on the front in public because of people's rights to wear what they want?

The wearing of the burkha is just the same and represents blatant discrimination and is every bit as hateful and offensive. If we allow one we have to allow all otherwise we are practising discrimination and publicly stating that some types of discrimination are more distasteful and some more acceptable than others. Would that be your opinion then? Do you think the discrimination of women is less distasteful and more acceptable than the discrimination of race or religion?

As for immigration - that is a subject very much still in progress because, in case you haven't noticed or chosen to ignore, Europe as a whole is increasingly protesting against mass immigration and open borders.

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So can anyone wear an item of clothing i.e. tee shirt or dress with a large swastika, ISIS or anti-Islam flag on the front in public because of people's rights to wear what they want?

The wearing of the burkha is just the same and represents blatant discrimination and is every bit as hateful and offensive. If we allow one we have to allow all otherwise we are practising discrimination and publicly stating that some types of discrimination are more distasteful and some more acceptable than others. Would that be your opinion then? Do you think the discrimination of women is less distasteful and more acceptable than the discrimination of race or religion?

As for immigration - that is a subject very much still in progress because, in case you haven't noticed or chosen to ignore, Europe as a whole is increasingly protesting against mass immigration and open borders.

So where did i say any of that ?
It's the person i was replying to that advocated the things you're trying to pull me up on so why aren't you questioning them about it instead of me ? Oh yeah, it doesn't fit in with your agenda does it.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So can anyone wear an item of clothing i.e. tee shirt or dress with a large swastika, ISIS or anti-Islam flag on the front in public because of people's rights to wear what they want?

The wearing of the burkha is just the same and represents blatant discrimination and is every bit as hateful and offensive. If we allow one we have to allow all otherwise we are practising discrimination and publicly stating that some types of discrimination are more distasteful and some more acceptable than others. Would that be your opinion then? Do you think the discrimination of women is less distasteful and more acceptable than the discrimination of race or religion?

As for immigration - that is a subject very much still in progress because, in case you haven't noticed or chosen to ignore, Europe as a whole is increasingly protesting against mass immigration and open borders.

The burqa is more cultural than religious. In some countries, its demanded and that is discriminatory. In the West, some women continue to wear it because a) that's what they are used to and feel comfortable in it. b) Because they wrongly believe it represents the purity of a religion. c) Because the men or family members demand it and d) because they want their right to privacy.

If we ban the burqa, we aid the women who aren't given a choice but what about the women who choose to wear it? Would we be discriminating her rights?

I walk past women wearing burqas on a regular basis. I hardly notice them and I certainly don't find them offensive or threatening. I don't look at those women pitifully and ponder about why they are wearing it, just as I don't ponder about the Hasidic Jewish women wearing dowdy clothing and ill fitting wigs or the English woman revealing their heavy cleavages or ass cheeks from micro outfits. All of those women could be being bullied by the men in their lives to wear the outfits they wear but its not for me to pick and choose which women are being repressed, abused, bullied, coerced or pimped based on what they are wearing.

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

when you are the only person on your street left who speaks English, you are going to move. I don't expect you to agree with that and you may call me an idiot for all I care but I do know your type. Those who preach diversity are almost always the first to flee when they experience it and see what it really entails. In California so many people are fleeing to other (whiter) states but unfortunately sometimes they are taking their political opinions with them.

I've lived in Africa and Saudi Arabia so that destroys your ill-founded assumptions (again!).
How on Earth can you claim to ''know my type'' when you don't know me or anything about me. You're judging me by your own discriminatory values which i'm proud to not share.
It just makes you look foolish when you repeatedly make incorrect assumptions

[Niamh.]

So flying an ISIS flag would equally be ok, do you think?

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

So flying an ISIS flag would equally be ok, do you think?

If they are a legal citizen of the United States then they should be allowed to fly it on their own property. If they start talking and indoctrinating people about how non-Muslims need to be killed, then that's a grey area. If they are a "refugee" not a citizen and they are proudly waving the Isis flag I think it is in our country's interest and our legal right to deport them on the spot back to wherever they came from.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

If they are a legal citizen of the United States then they should be allowed to fly it on their own property. If they start talking and indoctrinating people about how non-Muslims need to be killed, then that's a grey area. If they are a "refugee" not a citizen and they are proudly waving the Isis flag I think it is in our country's interest and our legal right to deport them on the spot back to wherever they came from.

mmhmm I don't believe you with all your if's and but's

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

So flying an ISIS flag would equally be ok, do you think?

I have seen an ISIS flag on a house in Britain. It seemed to be allowed. At least I guess they are indentifying themselves - not so much of the hidden enemy within.

There were also such flags being waved at a recent Hezbolah demostration in London, which was supposedly illegal, but nothing was done about it.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I have seen an ISIS flag on a house in Britain. It seemed to be allowed. At least I guess they are indentifying themselves - not so much of the hidden enemy within.

It is NOT allowed and you should have reported it as soon as you saw it.

[Tom4784]

Freedom of Speech isn't unconditional, even in the US. Whether it's legal or other consequences, ALL opinions come with consequences.

Originally Posted by Greg!

It is NOT allowed and you should have reported it as soon as you saw it.

Can't report what didn't happen.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Freedom of Speech isn't unconditional, even in the US. Whether it's legal or other consequences, ALL opinions come with consequences.



Can't report what didn't happen.

Really. Didn't know you were there. Or is it a habit of yours to call people liars based on no evidence whatsoever.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I have seen an ISIS flag on a house in Britain. It seemed to be allowed. At least I guess they are indentifying themselves - not so much of the hidden enemy within.

An actual ISIS flag? They should be made take it down and they should be arresting them imo

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Greg!

It is NOT allowed and you should have reported it as soon as you saw it.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

An actual ISIS flag? They should be made take it down and they should be arresting them imo

I'd bet good money that what Brillo saw was simply the national flag with arabic of a middle-eastern country (Iraq, Saudi, Yemen etc. have writing on their flags), and not an actual Jihadist black flag.

Not least because an actual ISIS member flying an ISIS flag on their house would be REALLY stupid .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'd bet good money that what Brillo saw was simply the national flag with arabic of a middle-eastern country (Iraq, Saudi, Yemen etc. have writing on their flags), and not an actual Jihadist black flag.

Not least because an actual ISIS member flying an ISIS flag on their house would be REALLY stupid .

Yeah

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'd bet good money that what Brillo saw was simply the national flag with arabic of a middle-eastern country (Iraq, Saudi, Yemen etc. have writing on their flags), and not an actual Jihadist black flag.

Not least because an actual ISIS member flying an ISIS flag on their house would be REALLY stupid .

It wasn't. It was an all black flag and had metal grates over the windows and doors. It looked really sinister.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'd bet good money that what Brillo saw was simply the national flag with arabic of a middle-eastern country (Iraq, Saudi, Yemen etc. have writing on their flags), and not an actual Jihadist black flag.

Not least because an actual ISIS member flying an ISIS flag on their house would be REALLY stupid .

I've seen an actual IS flag several times, although not on a house. I've seen one fixed to the front of a a table in East Ham High Street (junction of Pilgrims Way, to be exact) alongside a man - and I use that term in its loosest possible sense - handing out leaflets and yelling into a bullhorn. I've also seen it being carried during demonstrations. It's as much of a disgrace as flying a Nazi flag on my opinion.

As for the USA, I think people in the States have so many freedoms compared to other places in the world that they imagine Freedom of Speech is something that allows them to do and say things just to antagonise... and we all know that's not the purpose of it.

[Greg!]

So we have a nazi sympathiser and, by the sounds of it, a holocaust-denier sympathiser on the forum. Wtaf

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Greg!

So we have a nazi sympathiser and, by the sounds of it, a holocaust-denier sympathiser on the forum. Wtaf

We also seem to have a dictator.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

We also seem to have a dictator.

Yes that Josy is a right COW!!

(I'm joking Josy xxx)

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Greg!

So we have a nazi sympathiser and, by the sounds of it, a holocaust-denier sympathiser on the forum. Wtaf

Labels are silly. Let's just say I no longer buy into the belief that the Allies in WW2 were all that better than the Nazis. The world ain't black and white. Never was.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Labels are silly. Let's just say I no longer buy into the belief that the Allies in WW2 were all that better than the Nazis. The world ain't black and white. Never was.

The allies didn't try and delete an entire race from the world.I'd say we were on the right side of morality in that one