[bots]

We need to up our defence spending to 5 or 6%

[bots]

Lets have some perspective. Before the meeting, trump had tried to force Zelenski to sign a deal without him even having read it. When he refused, Trump and Vance said ukraine started the war and that he was an unelected dictator


It will be difficult for europe and ukraine to proceed without america, but not impossible. We cannot rely on the USA for anything now or in the future. Europe has to be able to protect itself. The UK may not have the biggest fighting force, but we have the command and intelligence expertise and mainland europe, when combined with ukraine, has a huge fighting force. I would call the USA's bluff and tell them to butt out

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Good point that neither Trump or Vance have criticised Putin

Europe needs to wake up, USA is not an ally

I wholeheartedly agree.

I said a while back somewhere that the USA needs sidelining as much as possible for the next 4 years until this paranoid power crazy Trump is away and off the World political stage for GOOD.

Europe really has to step up and come together.

I feel this was staged possibly today, Vance was the one to load and fire the starting shot.
To allow Trump to make the statements he's been saying for weeks now.

As for being disrespectful to the oval office.
A President sitting there calling the previous President stupid, hardly is in any way respecting that ridiculous oval office.

Trump is a greedy paranoid narcissist.
I'm not one of the greatest fans of Zelensky HOWEVER he certainly didn't suck up to Trump nor take his nonsense.
I think this was more planned than not what happened here today by Vance and Trump.

[Parmy]

Trump realises putin needs something out of all this. All trump wants to do is stop the pointless deaths of millions of people. Its Europe, and zylenskis moral stubborness that's going to drive the world into world war 3. Only way to stop that is Trump, and a complete solidarity from ukraine.

Zylenskis is failing to accept how much of Ukraine's land Trump could actually save him.

There isnt really a right or wrong when one of the worlds super powers goes off on one. There is only franetic scrambling between the rest to reduce the rubble.

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Well I would agree, but Zelensky looks exhausted and is under incredible stress, also English is his second language, they accused him of rolling his eyes and shrugging but it looked like he was trying to understand the questions, Trump set him up anyway by making the comments about Ukraine starting the war, that he was a comedian etc.....think they got the outcome they wanted in all honesty...it would have made more sense for Zelensky to have gone in there supported by some European leaders .

Fair points and Zelensky's English is amazing given he barely spoke the language until the invasion. I think this could have been handled better all round though, I hope Zelensky isn't playing a dangerous game of trying to force Europe's hand by antagonising the US

[bots]

i can't agree with anything you have said there Parm

[In the Drunk Tank]

Also if we go against America on this it's not just a disagreement about defence. We risk losing their goodwill and cooperation in a whole load of areas including being subject to tariffs which will make us all poorer and less safe

[Cherry Christmas]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...edfab241&ei=11

[Good King Glennceslas]

Originally Posted by Beso

Trump realises putin needs something out of all this. All trump wants to do is stop the pointless deaths of millions of people. Its Europe, and zylenskis moral stubborness that's going to drive the world into world war 3. Only way to stop that is Trump, and a complete solidarity from ukraine.

Zylenskis is failing to accept how much of Ukraine's land Trump could actually save him.

There isnt really a right or wrong when one of the worlds super powers goes off on one. There is only franetic scrambling between the rest to reduce the rubble.

Say Russia invaded the UK. What part of the UK would you surrender to Russia to stop the war they started?

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Also if we go against America on this it's not just a disagreement about defence. We risk losing their goodwill and cooperation in a whole load of areas including being subject to tariffs which will make us all poorer and less safe

Starmer came away after all the flattery with nothing more than a ..we will see....Trump is unpredictable, he and Russia are trying to divide Europe ....with all his special relationship crap, and Europe have been awful to the USA narrative

[bots]

What we are doing is reacting to a press conference that was staged for the benefit of trump supporters. You can't look at these things emotionally and I 100% agree that Zelenski had to push back otherwise he would have looked weak. He played it the best way he could in the circumstances.

From a european perspective, europe don't want to lose america as a defence partner, but if america is going to step away then we have to step up or we will be over run. Europe has not been pulling it's weight and it must do now or we are finished. Everybody keeps talking about WW3, but the reality is, it's already begun. It began when russia invaded ukraine and we must increase our defence spending considerably if we are to stand any chance of meeting the imminent threat

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Say Russia invaded the UK. What part of the UK would you surrender to Russia to stop the war they started?

If it stopped my family from being killed I would say amy part they wanted.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by bots

i can't agree with anything you have said there Parm

That's fine, I hadnt watched the meeting. I have now though.

2 unhinged people, but only one of them able to see the bigger picture that would effect the rest of the world if a deal isn't done. Zylenski used to be the worlds favourite pet 3 years ago, but hes bit the finger too much


I was thinking about the photos at the start and how he
he came across as a desperate man. Then thinking back on the last 3 years where hes been seen as a great warrior and defender by the western world.

What's changed in the past 3 months is my question!

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Beso

If it stopped my family from being killed I would say amy part they wanted.

what if your family lived in the part they wanted to take

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by bots

What we are doing is reacting to a press conference that was staged for the benefit of trump supporters. You can't look at these things emotionally and I 100% agree that Zelenski had to push back otherwise he would have looked weak. He played it the best way he could in the circumstances.

From a european perspective, europe don't want to lose america as a defence partner, but if america is going to step away then we have to step up or we will be over run. Europe has not been pulling it's weight and it must do now or we are finished. Everybody keeps talking about WW3, but the reality is, it's already begun. It began when russia invaded ukraine and we must increase our defence spending considerably if we are to stand any chance of meeting the imminent threat

Vances smug face at end of the conference spoke volumes, these people are supposed to have Christian values as well I think the question from the reporter about not wearing a suit was definately staged, why would you waste a question at such an important point in history on that....Zelenksy gave it back to him with both barrels....class

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Beso

That's fine, I hadnt watched the meeting. I have now though.

2 unhinged people, but only one of them able to see the bigger picture that would effect the rest of the world if a deal isn't done. Zylenski used to be the worlds favourite pet 3 years ago, but hes bit the finger too much


I was thinking about the photos at the start and how he
he came across as a desperate man. Then thinking back on the last 3 years where hes been seen as a great warrior and defender by the western world.

What's changed in the past 3 months is my question!

Parm, the deal for Zelensky hinged on securities, no point signing a deal if there are no guarantees, Trump practically accused him of starting WW3 but we all know who did that, Zelensky pointed out that Putin had broken a ceasefire that he, Merkel Putin and Macron had signed so pardon him if he didnt cave in just because Trump thought any peace might hold just because

[Good King Glennceslas]

Originally Posted by Beso

If it stopped my family from being killed I would say amy part they wanted.

So you’d just bend over and let them take what they wanted.

[arista]

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