[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well one of these people was my dad Fairly sure my brother is my actual brother, never had a dna test done like.

The other actually did actually get a DNA test done and the poor woman...got grief from all angles for 'cheating'. They should have just left it a couple of years though as the kids the double of him now so a test was not needed

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I think it's pretty rare for vasectomies to fail, are they sure it's their babies?

Well I thought so too until we had a pregnancy scare this last fortnight and I looked it up! Apparently failures in the first year are 1%, which is low odds... But given that there are 10,000 done per year that's still 1000 failures. So it's not THAT rare . I think the risk of failure drops dramatically after the first year if there's still zero sperms count at that point. Most common reason for failure is basically that things are still healing and scar tissue still resolving and there's a chance of "channels" developing where sperms can get through, but after a year things are unlikely to change.

It was just a scare, no pregnancy after all. However on topic... If the very unlikely was to happen, we would definitely have to accept abortion as our option. I'm not 100% comfortable with abortion, I don't think it's "nothing" or routine like some people seem to, but our ciscumstances basically mean that another child would be a disaster. Not just hard, but permanently life altering in not good ways.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Contraceptives will fail. Not just can, will, they have a percentage failure rate, I think condoms is 97%? That doesnt mean that in your entire life you have a tiny chance of it failing... That's the misconception here... It means that if you have sex with a condom 33 times - on average, one of those times, the contraceptive will fail. That won't always result in a pregnancy of course but there's always the chance.

The pill fails (had it happen), the coil fails (had that happen). Even vasectomies bloody fail. In fact the ONLY certain forms of contraception are abstinence, and full hysterectomy (if there's no uterus, there ain't going to be a pregnancy).

So yeah... Your choices are abstinence for all, unwanted babies for some, or abortion being a thing.

Again you missed my point, abortion in the case of failure of contraception is fine who said it wasn't?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Again you missed my point, abortion in the case of failure of contraception is fine who said it wasn't?

Well, of course it's immoral for people to use abortion AS contraception, but there's not a huge amount that can be done about it? How can you possibly "prove" the reason for abortion, without doing an alarming amount of digging into the person's private life? You sort of just have to accept that it's a necessary thing to have available, and as with anything, immoral people will abuse what's available at times.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well, of course it's immoral for people to use abortion AS contraception, but there's not a huge amount that can be done about it? How can you possibly "prove" the reason for abortion, without doing an alarming amount of digging into the person's private life? You sort of just have to accept that it's a necessary thing to have available, and as with anything, immoral people will abuse what's available at times.

I just find it sad that people resort to this when there are so many other easier less invasive methods, it's selfish to the core, at least it is looking like education on sexual health is getting through and the under 30s are getting the message, hope that continues

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I just find it sad that people resort to this when there are so many other easier less invasive methods, it's selfish to the core, at least it is looking like education on sexual health is getting through and the under 30s are getting the message, hope that continues

Hmm. I would actually say that its kind of...self-hating...to resort to abortions rather than MUCH easier and less painful methods of contraception tbh. Genuinely cannot understand people who would chose to go through multiple abortions.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

OMG. I laughed so much when I saw Vicky's answer. Its so unlike you to put your foot in it

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I just find it sad that people resort to this when there are so many other easier less invasive methods, it's selfish to the core, at least it is looking like education on sexual health is getting through and the under 30s are getting the message, hope that continues

Yeah, I don't get why anyone would actually CHOOSE multiple abortions over other contraceptive methods.

To be honest though, the rhetoric around contraception needs to become more truthful or young people quickly realise that it's BS. Other methods are NOT always that simple, basically. Condoms are ****. I mean yeah, I get it, the whole "Well not as **** as dun dun deeerrrr UNWANTED PREGNANCY" thing, and that's true enough, but why are we still peddling the lie that it "feels just the same"? It doesn't feel the same, or anything even close to the same, for either men or women . Maybe a tiny few don't think there's a difference but it's definitely a minority... and you can tell people that it's "just the same" all day long but as soon as they've experienced with and without, they're going to know that it... well... isn't? Sadly it's also the only thing that offers any real STI protection but I personally find them completely awful. To the extent that if I was a single having sex with multiple people... I actually just wouldn't at all. I wouldn't want to risk STI's and I'd pretty much rather not have sex at all than use condoms .

Then there's the pill. Also touted as "simple" but there are a few issues there, too. For some women it causes huge hormonal problems. And even for those who don't, the basic fact is, not that many people are brilliant at taking them properly even with the best of intentions. There are IUD's but those are an uncomfortable procedure and can be uncomfortable afterwards, and can have a myriad of complications that result in them needing to be removed. Then at the "nuclear option" end of the scale there's vasectomy, which again, the "official information" isn't entirely truthful. It's not really a small, relatively pain free procedure at all... it's a pretty painful procedure, followed by 3/4 days of being bed/couch ridden and then at least a few more weeks of general discomfort. And the procedure for women is more invasive surgery.

On top of that... no method is foolproof.

It would be great if there was a simple answer but thus far there just isn't, and I guess maybe there never will be. "Life finds a way" and all that... our bodies WANT to reproduce, stopping them from doing so is always going to be challenging.