[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I think this thread's a good example that people don't tend to read the article in threads like this. The assumption that they are Jehovah's witnesses have been fuelled by the misreading of Sheriff's post. He was providing an example of religious beliefs getting in the way of medical treatment, not saying the people in question were Jehovah's witnesses.

also it proves Jakey has a good valid point in people assuming that they were Jehovah's witnesses


he was just stating some evidence about Jehovah's witnesses that they aren't anything like the people stated in the article


i find it just silly and not very respectful for the Jehovah witness community that people come to the wrong conclusions that they see them as awful people while they aren't

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

also it proves Jakey has a good valid point in people assuming that they were Jehovah's witnesses


he was just stating some evidence about Jehovah's witnesses that they aren't anything like the people stated in the article


i find it just silly and not very respectful for the Jehovah witness community that people come to the wrong conclusions that they see them as awful people while they aren't

Do you know how the JW's have traditionally dealt with sexual abuse allegations?

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Do you know how the JW's have traditionally dealt with sexual abuse allegations?

uh no how then?

[Beso]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Do you know how the JW's have traditionally dealt with sexual abuse allegations?

Same as the catholics probably.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Same as the catholics probably.

There's good and bad in all though Parmy.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

There's good and bad in all though Parmy.

that's true

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

There's good and bad in all though Parmy.

The catholic institution covered up and moved on paedophiles though as a rule so no, "there's good and bad in both" doesn't apply to this particular point imo

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

uh no how then?

The church elders would hold a meeting with the victim/victims family, and the accused, and the victim was expected to recount the events and allegations in front of the abuser. This is actually worse than ignoring it imo, because no child victim should be expected to go through that amount of shame.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by ShakeyJake10

We seek the best possible medical care for ourselves and our families. When we have health problems, we go to doctors who have skill in providing medical and surgical care without blood. We appreciate advancements that have been made in the medical field. In fact, bloodless treatments developed to help Witness patients are now being used to benefit all in the community. In many countries, any patient can now choose to avoid blood-transfusion risks, such as blood-borne diseases, immune-system reactions, and human errors. Surgeons regularly perform such complex procedures as heart operations, orthopedic surgery, and organ transplants without the use of blood transfusions. Patients, including children, who do not receive transfusions usually fare as well as or better than those who do accept transfusions. In any case, no one can say for certain that a patient will die because of refusing blood or will live because of accepting it. This is a religious issue rather than a medical one. Both the Old and New Testaments clearly command us to abstain from blood. (Genesis 9:4; Leviticus 17:10; Deuteronomy 12:23; Acts 15:28, 29) Also, God views blood as representing life. (Leviticus 17:14) So we avoid taking blood not only in obedience to God but also out of respect for him as the Giver of life.
At one time, the medical community generally viewed strategies for avoiding transfusions, so-called bloodless medicine, as extreme, even suicidal, but this has changed in recent years. For example, in 2004, an article published in a medical education journal stated that “many of the techniques developed for use in Jehovah’s Witness patients will become standard practice in years to come.”* An article in the journal Heart, Lung and Circulation said in 2010 that “‘bloodless surgery’ should not be limited to Jehovahs witnesses but should form an integral part of everyday surgical practice.”

Thousands of doctors worldwide now use blood-conservation techniques to perform complex surgeries without transfusions. Such alternatives to blood transfusions are used even in developing countries and are requested by many patients who are not Jehovah’s Witnesses.

You realise of course that people wrote the Bible? And it was written in a time when blood transfusion did not exist and probably couldn't be imagined.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by ShakeyJake10

I am retiring myself from this conversation I have made valid points some of you agree some of you don’t and never will. That’s what religion is it’s a persons own faith and I don’t wish to have people make a joke of my religion such as the post above no clearly I don’t wear 2 woven materials as the mosaic law is no longer in place but abstaining from blood is still a command in place. I simply started to speak up as I didn’t want anyone to think these people that let their children die as they didn’t want any medical help clearly aren’t witnesses as I have made it clear the lengths we go to for medical help. I think it’s a touchy subject where people will try and taunt me and I don’t think an entertainment forum is the time or the place to discuss these matters and I shouldn’t have started speaking that’s my own fault I simply wanted to make the point that people were to quick to assume

We all have our convictions, Jake. For some, it's anti-religion. That's comes part of the deal of having faith in this time period (as I'm sure you probably already know)... seems we all confess rather regularly our worst beliefs (or sins) on this board in order to "reconcile" our social placements with other. So I don't think you should feel bad to share your perspective on things. These collisions will occur all throughout life, so why not discuss them? Certainty is not as easy to claim as some would have others think.

I don't necessarily agree with the "living your truth" phrase (an Oprah thing I think?). I feel that expression is too vague and preachy for me. However, I do feel we all have to make "peace" with the uncertainties in life one way or another and for some that leads directly to their path to faith... and we all do it in our own way and in our own time. I do respect others in the sense that we are all mutually guided on that same principle, whether we choose to have faith or not... in that respect...

It's when people are motivated by greed and the power that is felt by abusing others that that I tend to worry about that "mutual-ness". Obviously that tendency be used to misled quite a few people to either do terrible things to themselves or to others, which is the opposite of what I think you've expressed here... which is really the "point" of the OP.

Anyway, I don't suggest you avoid SD or even this thread. I think just consider how you contribute on the thread topics, make sure it is worth your time and just stop worrying about the trolls... they will never go away so nor should we. Other people here do read your posts, even if they don't have your capability with words (which I think are clear and well-written)... so that's what more important I think. We don't all have to agree on every point and that is OK.

[Maru]

The original linked article didn't seem to explain everything to me, so I did a web search...

Source: https://people.com/crime/michigan-pa...-daughter/amp/

A Michigan couple reacted with visible shock — the dad’s mouth hanging open, the mom in tears — as they were arraigned Monday on charges of felony murder and first-degree child abuse in connection with the Thursday starvation death of their 10-month-old daughter.

Tatiana Fusari and Seth Welch, both 27, appeared via video in 63rd District Court as Kent County Judge Sara Smolenski detailed the allegations against them.

As Smolenski explained the charges, Welch first shook his head in apparent disbelief before his mouth dropped as he heard the possible sentence they face.

Both parents are being held without bail and, if convicted, could spend the rest of their lives in prison.

Their daughter Mary Anne Welch was found dead last week inside a crib in the couple’s Solon Township home, according to authorities. She died from both malnutrition and dehydration, prosecutors confirm to PEOPLE.

Welch allegedly awoke that morning to find the girl lifeless. Investigators accuse Welch and Fusari of failing to seek medical treatment for Mary, insisting they had to have known she was unwell.

Welch allegedly has a distrust of medical professionals and cited religious reasons when pressed on why he did not take Mary in to be treated, according to a criminal affidavit obtained by PEOPLE.

“During interviews with both parents, admissions were made that they were aware of Mary Welch’s skinny appearance and low weight for at least one month prior to this date,” the affidavit reads.

Investigators further contend in the affidavit that “Fusari admitted during the interview that they failed to reach out for medical help with their daughter for fear of having her children removed by Child Protective Services, lack of faith and trust in the medical services and religious reasons.”

The couple have two other children, who are now staying with Welch’s parents.

Welch previously documented his religious beliefs in videos posted to his Facebook page, where he also recently revealed Fusari is pregnant with their fourth child.

In one video, he said that doctors are “priesthoods of the medical cult.” He also spoke out against vaccines in a different clip: “The righteous shall live by faith. It’s God who is sovereign over disease and those sorts of things and, of course, ultimately deaths.”

Hours after Mary’s death, he wrote that his “heart is about shattered” and that “Tati and I are the worst parents ever.”

“Just numb inside right now,” the post continued. “And I’m really enjoying the loving embrace of an isolation cell from the cops and government employees who keep assuring me ‘they are only here to help.’ ”

Sounds like straight fanaticism. It seems a bit ironic too considering how much religion (Christianity particularly) has always had a place in our hospitals/medical system in the US. They could've visited a Christian hospital if they were were worried about their practices being disrespected?...

[Strictly Jake]

Maru thanks for your kind words to me above and for those that gave their opinions back to me whether you agree or not what makes the world and being human interesting is that everyone on here will have their own opinion on a subject and have varying interests i think in some ways that can make a forum great. The problem is when it borders on arguments and having to defend beliefs noone needs to defend thier own opinion and thats simply why i retracted as i know what i know and feel what i feel and noone can change that and i dont wish to change someone elses opinion I could see where the topic was heading so i stopped and allowed the topic to get back to the point of the article

I think all of us can agree on the point that these people did not have an excuse what they did was wrong they didnt seek any form of help whereas yes i cant have a blood transfusion i would definitely try everything else available in my absolute power to have my life saved or those of my precious children who are the world to me

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The catholic institution covered up and moved on paedophiles though as a rule so no, "there's good and bad in both" doesn't apply to this particular point imo

It does though, because what management does in any organisation doesn’t always filter down to the workers so you can’t say they are all the same

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by ShakeyJake10

Maru thanks for your kind words to me above and for those that gave their opinions back to me whether you agree or not what makes the world and being human interesting is that everyone on here will have their own opinion on a subject and have varying interests i think in some ways that can make a forum great. The problem is when it borders on arguments and having to defend beliefs noone needs to defend thier own opinion and thats simply why i retracted as i know what i know and feel what i feel and noone can change that and i dont wish to change someone elses opinion I could see where the topic was heading so i stopped and allowed the topic to get back to the point of the article

I think all of us can agree on the point that these people did not have an excuse what they did was wrong they didnt seek any form of help whereas yes i cant have a blood transfusion i would definitely try everything else available in my absolute power to have my life saved or those of my precious children who are the world to me

First of all I have nothing against your religion or beliefs, but I like to use logic, if blood is not pure, that means your own blood is not pure regardless of religion.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It does though, because what management does in any organisation doesn’t always filter down to the workers so you can’t say they are all the same

It wasn't just management though was it? Or was it all managers running the launderies or burying those babies in Tuam too?