[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what about at a swimming pool?

women in Bath are complaining that men are walking around the communal showers naked, they demand some privacy and respect

Again comparing apples to oranges; no it's not OK for people to walk around communal changing areas naked... but at last check, it was also not OK for people to walk around hospital wards naked. Maybe things have changed since I last visited one

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Again comparing apples to oranges; no it's not OK for people to walk around communal changing areas naked... but at last check, it was also not OK for people to walk around hospital wards naked. Maybe things have changed since I last visited one

surely oranges and bananas?

[thesheriff443]

No I’m not getting in the life boat there is a man dressed as a woman sitting in it.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

surely grapefruit and bananas?

Fixed

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Just double checked my last post. Thought I posted in French by mistake.

Nope it's all there and above board.

Here it is again. No. Right. Is. Being. Taken. Away.

So the 'rape victims' needs being discussed and approved with the trans person isn't a right being taken away?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I’m pretty sure a penis has put a smile on your face more than once.

That's just the level of comment I would expect from you.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

So the 'rape victims' needs being discussed and approved with the trans person isn't a right being taken away?

Another hypothetical?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yeah, why, after centuries of oppression, should women have a say about their own safety, because it might upset a man who, after all the privileges of being raised male, identifies as a woman.

This doesn't affect trans women at all. Trans women in the process of transitioning who have had or will have surgery... I have no problem with them and would be happy to share a changing room, a toilet, a ward...

Men who "identify" as women but have no interest in transitioning, they should be put in a ward where everyone else has a penis too.

And incidentally, when it comes to women's rights, I'm not comfortable with anyone with a penis changing the rules.

Why on earth would a transwoman make you feel unsafe?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Why on earth would a transwoman make you feel unsafe?

Where have I said that? Didn't you read what I said, Marshy?

Men who "self identify as women" are not welcome, as far as I'm concerned, in women only spaces.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Where have I said that? Didn't you read what I said, Marshy?

Yeah, why, after centuries of oppression, should women have a say about their own safety, because it might upset a man who, after all the privileges of being raised male, identifies as a woman.

Why would this particular discussion require you to say this unless you think transgender women being on the same ward as women somehow makes them unsafe?

Originally Posted by Livia

Men who "self identify as women" are not welcome, as far as I'm concerned, in women only spaces.

The "women only spaces" that are open to everyone?

[ethanjames]

hi! a lot of people in this thread are speaking on my behalf as a trans ftm person who is pre op (though i have been on testosterone for a few months now!) and though i cannot speak for all trans people i would feel much more comfortable in a male ward than a female since that is what i identify as. most wards are mixed though from what i can remember so i don't quite see the issue here... but if there has to be gendered wards i think that if the person has some sort of proof they identify as that gender whether that is doctor diagnosed gender dysphoria or whatnot i dont see the problem whatsoever! you could always ask for a private ward if you are that concerned about trans people.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's just the level of comment I would expect from you.

Well you started throwing penises around so I had to reply with something on the the same par.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by ethanjames

hi! a lot of people in this thread are speaking on my behalf as a trans ftm person who is pre op (though i have been on testosterone for a few months now!) and though i cannot speak for all trans people i would feel much more comfortable in a male ward than a female since that is what i identify as. most wards are mixed though from what i can remember so i don't quite see the issue here... but if there has to be gendered wards i think that if the person has some sort of proof they identify as that gender whether that is doctor diagnosed gender dysphoria or whatnot i dont see the problem whatsoever! you could always ask for a private ward if you are that concerned about trans people.

the thread was started for all to comment and not a trans people only comment thread as it is something that affects all hospital patients

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by ethanjames

hi! a lot of people in this thread are speaking on my behalf as a trans ftm person who is pre op (though i have been on testosterone for a few months now!) and though i cannot speak for all trans people i would feel much more comfortable in a male ward than a female since that is what i identify as. most wards are mixed though from what i can remember so i don't quite see the issue here... but if there has to be gendered wards i think that if the person has some sort of proof they identify as that gender whether that is doctor diagnosed gender dysphoria or whatnot i dont see the problem whatsoever! you could always ask for a private ward if you are that concerned about trans people.

Hello, welcome to the forum.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

the thread was started for all to comment and not a trans people only comment thread as it is something that affects all hospital patients

Well the only ones offended in this thread are women not wanting a pre op trans on their ward.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

the thread was started for all to comment and not a trans people only comment thread as it is something that affects all hospital patients

I believe ethanjames is referring to the fact that some members have taken it upon themselves to express the views of female-to-male transexuals, e.g. by stating that it's "only male-to-female transexuals who have a problem" and that F-to-M's are compliant and won't complain about being on female wards.

[bots]

So many people are missing the point here. Hospitals are full of people at their most vulnerable. The system should not be setup to allow those vulnerable people to be at the mercy of someone pretending to be something they are not, in order to take advantage. That is the crux of the issue, all the rest is noise and people sabre rattling for their own agenda.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ethanjames

hi! a lot of people in this thread are speaking on my behalf as a trans ftm person who is pre op (though i have been on testosterone for a few months now!) and though i cannot speak for all trans people i would feel much more comfortable in a male ward than a female since that is what i identify as. most wards are mixed though from what i can remember so i don't quite see the issue here... but if there has to be gendered wards i think that if the person has some sort of proof they identify as that gender whether that is doctor diagnosed gender dysphoria or whatnot i dont see the problem whatsoever! you could always ask for a private ward if you are that concerned about trans people.

Hey Ethan, I think it's just this self ID stuff that people are a bit more wary of (although I agree about hospital wards, I'm not even sure if they're segregated by sex here, I know I've been in mixed day wards)

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Hello, welcome to the forum.

He isn't a new member

[ethanjames]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

the thread was started for all to comment and not a trans people only comment thread as it is something that affects all hospital patients

where did i say people couldnt comment? people have just been commenting on what trans ftm people think but arent actually trans themselves. thought i should clear the air.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

He isn't a new member

I know and I don’t welcome new members.

[ethanjames]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I believe ethanjames is referring to the fact that some members have taken it upon themselves to express the views of female-to-male transexuals, e.g. by stating that it's "only male-to-female transexuals who have a problem" and that F-to-M's are compliant and won't complain about being on female wards.

this is what i meant! if that wasnt brought up i probably wouldnt comment!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The system should not be setup to allow those vulnerable people to be at the mercy of someone pretending to be something they are not, in order to take advantage.

It's an imagined risk, the idea that hordes of male predators will be declaring themselves women in order to get onto a female hospital ward and prey on sick people is panic-logic. And if that did happen and those patients would be at risk, then the problem is much bigger than who is and isn't admitted to each ward, as visiting hours are near unlimited these days and so people who want to prey on people in hospital can literally just walk in off the street. Wards are busy and full of patients, staff and visitors and should be safe for everyone. If they're not then there's a much bigger security issue than "covert perverts" pretending to be women .

It's the exact same panic-logic that applies to the female bathroom debate. "If men can self ID as women then they will be able to walk into female public bathrooms and attack people!" ... as though there's currently a mystical forcefield that keeps penises out of women's bathrooms. Not to scare everyone but hey... guess what... if an attacker wants to get you in a women's bathroom right now, he can just walk right in. He doesn't need to declare "I am a woman" to the door to make it open. Unbelievable, isn't it?

[ethanjames]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Hey Ethan, I think it's just this self ID stuff that people are a bit more wary of (although I agree about hospital wards, I'm not even sure if they're segregated by sex here, I know I've been in mixed day wards)

i think if this was a discussion about prisons or something it would be a different discussion but i genuinely cannot see the issue with hospitals. i do understand the worry about self identifying though.

[ethanjames]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Hello, welcome to the forum.

not new but hi